EPA rules greenhouse gases threaten public health; winter storm pounds U.S.

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 4:03 PM GMT on December 08, 2009

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In a press release yesterday the EPA announced: "After a thorough examination of the scientific evidence and careful consideration of public comments, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced today that greenhouse gases (GHGs) threaten the public health and welfare of the American people. The ruling comes in response to the 2007 U.S. Supreme Court decision that GHGs fit within the Clean Air Act definition of air pollutants, and paves the way for the EPA to regulate CO2 as a pollutant. In the event Congress does not pass legislation to limit greenhouse gas emissions, the EPA now has the power to do that on its own. In the words of the press release, "President Obama and Administrator Jackson have publicly stated that they support a legislative solution to the problem of climate change and Congress. efforts to pass comprehensive climate legislation. However, climate change is threatening public health and welfare, and it is critical that EPA fulfill its obligation to respond to the 2007 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that determined that greenhouse gases fit within the Clean Air Act definition of air pollutants." The first EPA rule to limit CO2 would likely affect cars and light-duty trucks. Over 23% of U.S. greenhouse gases emissions are caused by on-road vehicles. Rules drafted on September 15, 2009, if imposed, would require vehicles sold between 2012 - 2016 to average 35.5 MPG.

Release of hacked emails had "organization and orchestration", UEA official says
Prof Trevor Davies, pro-vice chancellor at the University of East Angelina where the "climategate" hacked email controversy began, said in an interview yesterday: "A lot of people have remarked that it seems an unlikely co-incidence that this happened just before Copenhagen. There are indications that the people who stole this data and documents have had them for some time. They have clearly had the chance to go through them and we have had to check them ourselves. I think from the way that this has mushroomed and the very rapid responses on various blog sites, it seems to me that it has some organization and orchestration".

Meanwhile, in the U.S., the FBI is investigating death threats made against two U.S. climate scientists involved in the emails. Clearly, meteorologists involved in tornado and hurricane chasing are risking their lives in the cause of science, but who would have thought that meteorologists sitting behind a computer crunching numbers would be risking their lives? Crazy life!.

Other posts on the hacked climate change email affair
Don't shoot the messenger
Embattled UK climate scientist steps down
The Manufactured Doubt industry and the hacked email controversy
Is more CO2 beneficial for Earth's ecosystems?

Ricky Rood in Copenhagen
Our Climate Change expert, Dr. Ricky Rood, is in Copenhagen for the COP15 climate change summit. His post on the "climategate" affair is one of the more intelligent and diplomatic commentaries I've seen.

Major winter storm blasts the Plains and Western U.S.
Meanwhile, back in North America, it is winter. The season's first widespread heavy snow event is here, with a fierce winter storm that is the pounding the west. The storm will dump heavy snow along a wide swath across a large region of the country, from California to Michigan. The storm brought blizzard conditions and a foot of snow to northern Arizona today. Fierce thunderstorms with winds gusts up to 74 mph hit the Phoenix region, causing widespread tree damage and power outages for 250,000 people. California's Sierra Mountains recorded over 3 feet of snow, and 1 - 3 feet of snow is expected in the mountains of southern Utah and in Colorado. Up to a foot of snow is expected tonight through Wednesday across Kansas, Iowa, southern Minnesota, and southern Wisconsin, with blizzard conditions likely in Iowa.

Some snow amounts from the storm so far (with distances in miles from the city included, where appropriate):

...CALIFORNIA...
ALPINE MEADOWS 42.0
KIRKWOOD 40.0
CISCO 5 ENE 35.0
KINGVALE 1.3 WSW 29.0
HOMEWOOD 2 SE 27.0
PROSSER CREEK RESERVOIR 24.0
FAIR PLAY 2.8 ESE 17.0
PLACERVILLE 2.9 WNW 13.0
SOUTH LAKE TAHOE 13.0
VOLCANO 5.4 NE 12.5
GRASS VALLEY 5.5 ESE 11.5
COLFAX 3.1 SW 11.0
ALTA SIERRA 0.4 WSW 10.0
SUSANVILLE 3.2 SSW 8.8
LAKE OF THE PINES 8.0
NEVADA CITY 5.4 W 5.2
FOLSOM 3.4 ESE 0.5
CARMICHAEL 1.4 W 0.3
SACRAMENTO 8.0 NE 0.1

...NEVADA...
HEAVENLY VALLEY 24.0
MT ROSE SKI AREA 23.0
CARSON CITY 1.3 NW 18.0
DAYTON 1.7 SW 13.0
RENO 7.1 N 12.0

...ARIZONA...
FLAGSTAFF 11.6
WILLIAMS 8.0
BELLEMONT 7.2
GRAND CANYON ARPT 3.0

...COLORADO...
DELTA 10.2

...UTAH...
VERDURE 8 WNW 25.0

Next post
My next post will be Wednesday.

Jeff Masters

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Quoting pearlandaggie:
694. Orca, you just have to learn to duck faster! ;)


You know me.. S&I and never wanting to say a discriminating word.... oh yeah.. and shy :)
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Quoting Orcasystems:


I have to agree (don't shoot me), other then the last para.


I don't have a gun, so I can't possibly shoot you! :)
Member Since: April 26, 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667
Quoting Orcasystems:


I have to agree (don't shoot me), other then the last para.


Hi Orka, what about the last paragraph?
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694. Orca, you just have to learn to duck faster! ;)
Member Since: September 14, 2007 Posts: 3 Comments: 3963
Quoting CaneWarning:
Dr. Gray is right on target with that article.


I have to agree (don't shoot me), other then the last para.
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Dr. Gray is right on target with that article.
Member Since: April 26, 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667
692. IKE
Quoting Orcasystems:


Good god no... if I posted my opinion of this whole thing (GW) I would get hounded off the blog by 50% of the free radicals


LOL.
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Quoting Orcasystems:


Good god no... if I posted my opinion of this whole thing (GW) I would get hounded off the blog by 50% of the free radicals


We've got all kinds of opinions already flying around and everyone seems to get their say.
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Quoting IKE:


Just a lot of arguing back and forth. Might as well copy and paste your opinion and keep posting it every hour.


Good god no... if I posted my opinion of this whole thing (GW) I would get hounded off the blog by 50% of the free radicals
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It's 76 degrees here but with 94% humidity and forecast highs in the mid 80's I think the A/C may see some action today! Anyone here in Iowa right now?
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Quoting TomJonesAL:
The following commentary is by Atmospheric Scientist and Hurricane forecasting specialist Dr. William Gray. Gray is the renowned hurricane forecaster and Emeritus Professor of Atmospheric Science at Colorado State University (CSU).

Puncturing the Climate Balloon

By Dr. Bill Gray

December 8, 2009


Had I not devoted my entire career of over half-a-century to the study and forecasting of meteorological and climate events I would have likely been concerned over the possibility of humans causing serious global climate degradation.

There has been an unrelenting quarter century of one-sided indoctrination of the western world by the media and by various scientists and governments concerning a coming carbon dioxide (CO_2 ) induced global warming disaster. These warming scenarios have been orchestrated by a combination of environmentalists, vested interest scientists wanting larger federal grants and publicity, the media which profits from doomsday scenario reporting, governmental bureaucrats who want more power over our lives, and socialists who want to level-out global living standards. These many alarmist groups appear to have little concern over whether their global warming prognostications are accurate, however. And they most certainly are not. The alarmists believe they will be able to scare enough of our citizens into believing their propaganda that the public will be willing to follow their advice on future energy usage and agree to a lowering of their standard of living in the name of climate salvation.

Rising levels of CO_2 are not near the threat these alarmists have portrayed them to be. There has yet to be a honest and broad scientific debate on the basic science of CO_2 's influence on global temperature. The global climate models predicting large amounts of global warming for a doubling of CO_2 are badly flawed. They should never have been used to establish government climate policy.

The last century's global warming of about 1 degree F is not a consequence of human activities. This warming is primarily the result of a multi-century changes in the globe's deep ocean circulation. These ocean current changes have lead to a small and gradual increase in the globe's temperature. We are coming out of the Little Ice Age and into a generally warmer climate state. This is akin to the warmer global climate of the Medieval Period. We can do nothing but adapt to such long period natural temperature changes.

The recent 'ClimateGate' revelations coming out of the UK University of East Anglia are but the tip of a giant iceberg of a well organized international climate warming conspiracy that has been gathering momentum for the last 25 years. This conspiracy would become much more manifest if all the e-mails of the publically funded climate research groups of the US and of foreign governments were ever made public.

The disastrous economic consequences of restricting CO_2 emissions from the present by as much as 20 percent by 2020 and 80 percent by 2050 (as being proposed in Copenhagen) have yet to be digested by the general public. Such CO_2 output decreases would cause very large increases in our energy costs, a lowering of our standard of living, and do nothing of significance to improve our climate.

The Cap-and-Trade bill presently before Congress, the likely climate agreements coming out of the Copenhagen Conference, and the EPA's just announced decision to treat CO_2 as a pollutant represents a grave threat to the industrial world's continued economic development. We should not allow these proposals to restrict our economic growth. Any United Nations climate bill our country might sign would act as an infringement on our country's sovereignty.



Can you provide a link to where you obtained this article. It is an attention grabing article especially coming from Dr Gray.
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686. i figured that was the case! :)
Member Since: September 14, 2007 Posts: 3 Comments: 3963
686. IKE
Quoting pearlandaggie:
674. with 70 degree temps, why are you running the A/C? humidity control or allergies? :)


Because it's 80 degrees inside and humid.
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685. IKE
Quoting Orcasystems:


There are differing opinions.. but I don't see much rational dialogue. From either the Doctor.. or the patients.


Just a lot of arguing back and forth. Might as well copy and paste your opinion and keep posting it every hour.
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Quoting pearlandaggie:
LMAO @ 667&669. You're on a role this morning, sir! LOL


Already on my second cup.. no telling how the rest of the day will go :) I have been watching, but not even bothering to post the last few weeks.. its been insane in here.

I also blew up a laptop and had to wait and reload a new one
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Ms. Cleo not to be as bad as originally thought...



Member Since: September 14, 2007 Posts: 3 Comments: 3963
Quoting Orcasystems:


I hate to say it... but after a few blogs like this for the last few weeks.. I miss JFV, he sounded more rational then some of the posts


That's FUNNY!
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674. with 70 degree temps, why are you running the A/C? humidity control or allergies? :)
Member Since: September 14, 2007 Posts: 3 Comments: 3963
Good morning. I've always tried to avoid discussing politics and religion but now there's GW to add to the list of do not discuss. So what do we talk about hmmm..I know the weather:) I'm sure we can all agree on that LOL!

It's 72 and cloudy with a 70% chance of rain in Melrose, FL :)
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Quoting IKE:


LOL....nope...I've got 70.5 degrees and my AC running as I type.


You want AC. just go out and look at my ponds.. they are skating rinks.
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LMAO @ 667&669. You're on a role this morning, sir! LOL
Member Since: September 14, 2007 Posts: 3 Comments: 3963
Quoting PensacolaDoug:
Hurricanejunkie writes:

Yes Doug, don't be blinded by ideology, words to live by.

I agree and I'm not but you wouldn;t know that..


What laws have been enacted that Al Gore is profiting from? Just curious...

I'm refering to the pending "Cap and Trade" legislation

I assume you were outraged when the Bush administration was awarding no-bid contracts to Haliburton and other ripoff artists that proceeded to war profiteer and make OBSCENE profits, sometimes at the expense of the men and women in the military. Now THAT was a hood-winking. I'm glad your outrage doesn't discriminate.


Now you're just being insulting. I have no love for the policies of GWB and his cronies.
We never discussed that issue here. You are just assuming. Your hate of the Bush administration seems to have blinded you to what is really going on. In you latest post, another insult. Apparently being critical of Gore makes one a "moron".



You really felt the need to re-post this? It is you who is blinded by ideology which is why I felt the need to reinforce it at the beginning of my original reply. Talk about the pot and the kettle. Al Gore has done nothing to you. The only logical explanation for your deep seated hatred of the man HAS to be political, thus ideology is blinding you. I am not BLINDED by hatred for the Bush administration but I probably should be. When someone is responsible for thousands of American lives lost on their watch (much of it preventable) and they don't even get a slap on the wrist, I'd say that might warrant some blinding hatred. That's another debate, however. Being critical of someone is only moronic if it's unfounded. I have not yet seen a good reason come from anyone on here to warrant the criticism of Al Gore. If someone on your side of the fence were doing worthwhile environmental work I'd be the first to give recognition. The closest thing to that might be T Boone Pickens but he isn't a Republican anymore for obvious reasons. The only thing the right wants to do is cast doubt, be derisive and thumb their nose at us "tree huggers" not come up with any solutions. Just my opinion. We obviously have to agree to disagree because this bickering is not really getting us anywhere.
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Sorry.

Will disengage, and leave the Craziness.
.
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Quoting Orcasystems:


I hate to say it... but after a few blogs like this for the last few weeks.. I miss JFV, he sounded more rational then some of the posts


Has he resurfaced yet?
Member Since: April 26, 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667
674. IKE
Quoting Orcasystems:


Want to trade weather Ike??



LOL....nope...I've got 70.5 degrees and my AC running as I type.
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Quoting biff4ugo:
Wow that is one powerful system.

Gainesville, FL had a 100% chance of rain for today when I left work yesterday. Now it is back down to 70%. :-(
I like it when the weather can be 100% right. Looking at the radar, it would have been.

calusakat 649
If you seal up a bedroom like a submarine with no gas exchange, you would have issues without scrubbers. Not only does oxygen decrease and CO2 increase but humidity is an issue. Another issue with your bedroom scenario is that the ratio of lung exchange volume to total room volume is small. Even a single breath is not a full lung volume. Lastly, most building materials and construction techniques still allow gas exchange both within the house and with the outside.
Fliping over a canoe in the water or breathing in a diving bell for a while shows the effects of rebreathed air quickly.


Still, what are the PPM's after sleeping all night. Just remember that the guidelines for the room are those that many of us do today.

Consider also, the size of the molecule affects how fast it moves through a material. Carbon dioxide is a much larger molecule than simply oxygen.

So, back to the $64,000 question. What are the PPM's after a good nights sleep?


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Quoting Buhdog:
Link

anyone want to trade me? hi 84 today~


Yes. look at post 664
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Link

anyone want to trade me? hi 84 today~
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Does it make any sense to put someone in charge of fighting climate change that doesn't believe it even exists?
If you need a bridge built, you ask the guy that has built bridges the best or longest to lead it, NOT the person that says "that'll never work" or "just keep using my ferry service, it is safer".
Who would be the best person to lead the CO2 exchange? England is working hard on it.
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Quoting CaneWarning:


It's GW, what do you expect? LOL


I hate to say it... but after a few blogs like this for the last few weeks.. I miss JFV, he sounded more rational then some of the posts
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Quoting Orcasystems:


There are differing opinions.. but I don't see much rational dialogue. From either the Doctor.. or the patients.


It's GW, what do you expect? LOL
Member Since: April 26, 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667
Quoting CaneWarning:


Nah, as long as there is a subject with differing opinions it'll be like this.


There are differing opinions.. but I don't see much rational dialogue. From either the Doctor.. or the patients.
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I can disagree without being disagreeable.
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Quoting Orcasystems:
I see that insanity and craziness is still running rampant in the blog. Hopefully the new Blog will help :)


Nah, as long as there is a subject with differing opinions it'll be like this.
Member Since: April 26, 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667
Quoting IKE:


It won't... Dr. M will post the 2010 hurricane predictions from Dr. Grey and also....gw from copenhagen:(


Want to trade weather Ike??

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663. IKE
Quoting Orcasystems:
I see that insanity and craziness is still running rampant in the blog. Hopefully the new Blog will help :)


It won't... Dr. M will post the 2010 hurricane predictions from Dr. Gray and also....gw from copenhagen:(
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661. unlikely.

LOL
Member Since: September 14, 2007 Posts: 3 Comments: 3963
I see that insanity and craziness is still running rampant in the blog. Hopefully the new Blog will help :)
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Hurricanejunkie writes:

Yes Doug, don't be blinded by ideology, words to live by.

I agree and I'm not but you wouldn;t know that..


What laws have been enacted that Al Gore is profiting from? Just curious...

I'm refering to the pending "Cap and Trade" legislation

I assume you were outraged when the Bush administration was awarding no-bid contracts to Haliburton and other ripoff artists that proceeded to war profiteer and make OBSCENE profits, sometimes at the expense of the men and women in the military. Now THAT was a hood-winking. I'm glad your outrage doesn't discriminate.


Now you're just being insulting. I have no love for the policies of GWB and his cronies.
We never discussed that issue here. You are just assuming. Your hate of the Bush administration seems to have blinded you to what is really going on. In you latest post, another insult. Apparently being critical of Gore makes one a "moron".

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Wow that is one powerful system.

Gainesville, FL had a 100% chance of rain for today when I left work yesterday. Now it is back down to 70%. :-(
I like it when the weather can be 100% right. Looking at the radar, it would have been.

calusakat 649
If you seal up a bedroom like a submarine with no gas exchange, you would have issues without scrubbers. Not only does oxygen decrease and CO2 increase but humidity is an issue. Another issue with your bedroom scenario is that the ratio of lung exchange volume to total room volume is small. Even a single breath is not a full lung volume. Lastly, most building materials and construction techniques still allow gas exchange both within the house and with the outside.
Fliping over a canoe in the water or breathing in a diving bell for a while shows the effects of rebreathed air quickly.

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Hurricane predictions today!!!!!!!!!!1
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Quoting BobinTampa:
does anyone know what percentage of human CO2 emmissions come from breathing?

Maybe it's time for a little government-authorized thinning of the herd?

I LOVE big government!


It's coming, just give it time.
Member Since: April 26, 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667
Quoting hurricanejunky:


I absolutely agree. I don't elevate him to sainthood either but I also don't think he deserves much of the criticism he receives. He isn't forcing anyone to do anything, he is just trying to educate the public about the danger that climate change poses to our planet. I think that's a fine message. Even if it didn't pose a danger to the planet just the fact that it motivates people to care for the environment would be enough for me. I think most of the hostility directed at Al Gore is purely political. Any ex-politicians on the right doing any Nobel peace prize winning environmental work? Uh, no.


I think many people have issues with him too because of the perceived hypocrisy. Sometimes his actions do not match his words. Kind of like when former Presidential candidate John Edwards built his massive home in NC. Actions should match your words. I know John Edwards received a lot of attention for that.
Member Since: April 26, 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667
does anyone know what percentage of human CO2 emmissions come from breathing?

Maybe it's time for a little government-authorized thinning of the herd?

I LOVE big government!
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Quoting CaneWarning:


I don't dislike Al Gore, in fact, I voted for him in 2000 (you can't blame all of us Floridians, some of us KNOW how to vote), but some elevate the man to sainthood status and that's not right either.


I absolutely agree. I don't elevate him to sainthood either but I also don't think he deserves much of the criticism he receives. He isn't forcing anyone to do anything, he is just trying to educate the public about the danger that climate change poses to our planet. I think that's a fine message. Even if it didn't pose a danger to the planet just the fact that it motivates people to care for the environment would be enough for me. I think most of the hostility directed at Al Gore is purely political. Any ex-politicians on the right doing any Nobel peace prize winning environmental work? Uh, no.
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Quoting GordoNBrooke:
"After a thorough examination of the scientific evidence and careful consideration of public comments, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced today that greenhouse gases (GHGs) threaten the public health and welfare of the American people."

So, by this logic water vapor, which is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2, is also a pollutant. Are we to now stop boiling pots of water on the stove?


Oh no, the dreaded dihydrogen monoxide!
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My house is on fire. I'd put it out but all I have is a CO2 fire extinguisher and I don't want to harm the environment.

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Quoting jpritch:
So, 5 parts per thousand, or 5000 parts per million isn't so good for those unused to such concentrations.

At extended exposures of 5000 PPM you start to see effects that take a long time to recover from, and that may in some cases not be reversible. You will see those even in people who have adapted to a high CO2 environment, in that they don't experience the kind of immediately unpleasant things the rest of us do.

There are jobs where regular exposure in the 1-3 percent range are not uncommon - submariners, for example. They often show retinal damage and decreased night and color vision, in addition the kinds things I mentioned before. Usually that level of exposure doesn't kill them, though, obviously.

If you or I were subjected to that, we'd probably be breathing really heavily and get a nasty headache, then get a kind of narcosis.

How does that square with the following observation from WIKI

"The permanent gases in gas we exhale are roughly 4% to 5% carbon dioxide and 4% to 5% less oxygen than was inhaled."

Be very interesting to see what the PPM's are in the average bedroom after two adults slept in it overnight. Windows closed for security, cracks caulked to save energy, weather outside just cool enough to need neither a/c or heat and the door closed for privacy. Room size: 10x15x8 - 1200 cubic feet of air - 240 cubic feet of oxygen.

With every breath that 20% oxygen goes down by 5% in that volume of air breathed into their lungs. Hmmmm.

Comments anyone?
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Quoting hurricanejunky:


Sorry, just catching up on the blog. Yes Doug, God forbid you have to read anything that shows Al Gore is actually more of a patriot than any of the morons who keep criticizing him for no reason.


I don't dislike Al Gore, in fact, I voted for him in 2000 (you can't blame all of us Floridians, some of us KNOW how to vote), but some elevate the man to sainthood status and that's not right either.
Member Since: April 26, 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667

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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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