Embattled UK climate scientist steps down

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 3:53 PM GMT on December 03, 2009

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The embattled director of the University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit (CRU), Dr. Phil Jones, announced that he will be temporarily standing aside as director. An independent review of his conduct in light of the emails illegally hacked from his computers last month is in progress. In a press release, Professor Jones said: "What is most important is that CRU continues its world leading research with as little interruption and diversion as possible. After a good deal of consideration I have decided that the best way to achieve this is by stepping aside from the Director's role during the course of the independent review and am grateful to the University for agreeing to this. The Review process will have my full support".

The University and the police are investigating the break-in, and it is currently unknown if this was the act of an insider or an external break-in. I think it is highly unlikely this was the work of an insider in a whistle-blower type of action, since a computer at realclimate.org was hacked into the same week (via a computer in Turkey), and the criminal attempted to upload the emails stolen from CRU to the realclimate.org server. This is not the sort of action a whistleblower would do. Dr. Gavin Schmidt of realclimate.org said in a comment yesterday that the CRU break-in appeared to have been done from the outside, into a backup mail server. It is unlikely the hacker acted alone, since hackers aren't typically intimately familiar with the details of the climate change science debate. The emails and code stolen were selectively culled by someone who appeared to have considerable expertise in climate science.

What did Dr. Jones do wrong?
So, what did Dr. Jones do wrong? For starters, he should have confronted the allegations raised by his critics immediately and talked candidly to the press about some of the specific accusations being made. For example, one of the emails contained the statement that he would like to "redefine what the peer-reviewed literature is" to exclude two questionable papers from the IPCC report. Well, that's not something a good scientist should seriously advocate, and is an impossibility, in any case. No one can redefine the peer-reviewed literature, since the rules for this are well-established an not subject to change. When I read the comment in the context it was made, it reads as a joke. There is no discussion in the hacked emails about how to go about redefining the peer-reviewed literature. In the end, the two papers Jones was referring to with this comment, McKitrick and Michaels (2004) and Kalnay and Cai (2003), ended up being cited and discussed in Chapter 2 of the IPCC AR4 report. Those intent on discrediting the science of human-caused global warming are spinning the comment differently, creating a controversy about something that is impossible to do, and was not being seriously suggested. Jones should have immediately spoken up to quash the hype on this comment.

The "trick" to "hide the decline"
Another area of concern is over a graph Dr. Jones helped construct in 1999 showing the "hockey stick" of Earth's surface temperature going back 1,000 years. This graph combined instrumental measurements made since the 1800s with older paleoclimate data (including data from tree rings) to show a continuous 1,000 year record of Earth's temperatures. The paleoclimate data after 1960 show a bogus decline in Earth's temperatures that does not agree with what modern thermometers have been measuring, due to a well-known variation in tree ring thickness as a function of time, referred to as "the decline". Thus, Jones elected to toss out the bogus paleoclimate data (using a "trick" to "hide the decline") rather than present it in the graph. The graph was not properly labeled to show this was done, so viewers of the graph would have had needed to be familiar with a 1998 paper published in Nature or the 1999 paper referenced in the caption on the graph, which explained this well-known data issue. The graph that Jones used his "trick" on was put into a 1999 report called the "WMO Statement on the Status of the Global Climate". The report was given to policy makers, but was never published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal. No reputable climate scientist believes that the paleoclimate data since 1960 is of higher quality than the instrumental record (this is discussed in detail in Chapter 6 of the 2007 IPCC report). In order to make the "hokey stick" graph less confusing, removing "the decline" from the tree ring data is a reasonable thing to do--provided one labels the graph properly. The graph was not properly labeled. Does Jones' "trick" and failure to properly label the graph constitute data falsification, or was it merely sloppy science? The hacked emails contain no suggestions that the "trick" was done to intentionally fool people, and the "trick" never appeared in the peer-reviewed scientific literature, including the IPCC reports. In Dr. Jones' words, "This is well-known and is called the "decline" or "divergence". The use of the term "hiding the decline" was in an email written in haste. CRU has not sought to hide the decline. Indeed, CRU has published a number of articles that both illustrate, and discuss the implications of, this recent tree-ring decline, including the article that is listed in the legend of the WMO Statement figure".




Figure 1. The WMO 1999 "hockey stick" figure (top) with climate reconstructions and instrumental temperatures merged, and a version (bottom) with the climate reconstructions (coloured) and instrumental temperatures (annual & summer in black) shown separately. Note "the decline" in the temperature obtained from tree ring data (green curve) in the bottom curve. Image credit: University of East Anglia.

Global warming contrarians are spinning the "trick" as reason to discredit the "hockey stick", claiming that the data was falsified to hide the fact that tree rings were telling the real story. Since the hockey stick was falsified, some claim, the entire science behind human-caused global warming needs to be questioned. This is plain ludicrous. The graph was never published in a scientific journal. Several updated versions of the "hockey stick" graph have been published in the ten years since the disputed graph was produced, and the "hockey stick" can be reproduced in essentially the same form excluding the controversial tree rings, using other paleoclimate data such as boreholes (See Mann et al., 2008, Figure 2). Furthermore, the peer-reviewed science supporting human-caused global warming is not based solely upon the "hockey stick" and the CRU data used for the last 150 years of the hockey stick graph. There are three separate data sets of global temperatures maintained by NASA, the CRU, and NOAA's National Climatic Data Center, that all show essentially the same global warming. We also have evidence from nature herself in the form of plants and animals expanding their ranges poleward, the record loss of Arctic sea ice in 2007 and record loss of multi-year Arctic sea ice this year, the shrinking of mountain glaciers, reductions in the length of freeze season in many Northern Hemisphere lakes and rivers, the shifting of spring blooms earlier in most regions of the world, and on and on and on. Again, Jones should have spoken up immediately to kill the ridiculous hype being pushed by global warming contrarians about the importance of a 10-year old graph that is now scientifically irrelevant, and was never published.


Figure 2. The "hockey stick" of global temperature anomalies since 300 A.D., as published in a 2008 paper in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences by Mann et al.. Even if one excludes tree rings (blue curve), the hockey stick looks the same.

Resistance to releasing data to other researchers
The hacked emails also show that Dr. Jones resisted releasing his data to contrarians and urged others to delete emails regarding Freedom Of Information (FOI) related requests. Many countries protect their weather data under an international agreement called World Meteorological Organization Resolution 40, which prohibits the data from being made public (this is why wunderground can't give out the UKMET model forecasts on our web site, for example). About 5% of the CRU data fell in that category, making release illegal. However, deleting emails related to FOI requests is inadvisable and implies one has something to hide. The investigation should certainly pursue the issue of whether Dr. Jones properly handled the requests to turn over his data to outside researchers. Ideally, weather data documenting Earth's climate history should be free to everyone on the planet (I am not a big fan of WMO Resolution 40). However, another aspect to this issue is the time it takes for the scientists involved to prepare the data for release. Large, complicated data sets require extensive documentation and access to related computer codes in order to process them, and making the data available to every amateur investigator interested in the data puts an unfair burden on the scientists who maintain the data sets. In particular, an amateur climate science investigator named Stephen McIntyre, who runs the web site Climate Audit, has created such an issue. McIntyre, a retired mining executive and an investor, is not a professional scientist, but has been successful identifying several technical errors made in the published literature. He has also generated a huge amount of misleading and incorrect information over the years, and has done a tremendous amount of damage to the understanding of climate science. McIntyre is intent on discrediting the science of human-caused global warming--presumably for ideological reasons, since he has no obvious ties to the fossil fuel industry--and has generated a large number of Freedom of Information requests to further his cause. One of the hacked emails, from Dr. Ben Santer, complained that McIntyre's FOI requests were intrusive and unreasonable with no scientific justification or explanation given, and appeared to be a calculated strategy to divert Santer's attention and focus away from research. It's worth reading Santer's reaction to the hacked email affair to learn more. Given such tactics by McIntyre, Dr. Jones' resistance to FOI requests from McIntyre is understandable, but appears to have been poorly handled.

The science of human-caused global warming remains unaffected
None of the hacked emails reveal any conspiracy to publish falsified or "fudged" material in the peer-reviewed scientific literature. The science of human-caused global warming will require no revision as a result of this affair. Baseless accusations of fraud, data manipulation, and conspiracy against climate change scientists stemming from the hacked emails are being massively hyped by the Manufactured Doubt industry in an effort to discredit climate scientists, since no flaw with the science can be found. Most of the public is in no position to distinguish good science from bad, so if you can create doubt, uncertainty, and confusion, you can win--or at least buy time, lots of it. The hacked email affair is all about politics, not science. Dr. Jones is an excellent scientist, but unfortunately was over-matched as a politician. It was hardly a fair fight--one scientist against the political might of the mightiest PR campaign against science ever waged, armed with some selectively culled stolen emails taken out of context.

Other posts in this series
The Manufactured Doubt industry and the hacked email controversy
Is more CO2 beneficial for Earth's ecosystems?

Next post
I'm working on a post called, "Don't shoot the messenger", and plan to run this Sunday or Monday.

Our Climate Change expert, Dr. Ricky Rood, will be in Copenhagen for Monday's start to the crucial COP15 climate change treaty negotiations. Be sure to tune into his blog for updates on the talks. Wunderground has provided financial support for several University of Michigan students to attend the talks, and I may be featuring portions of their blogs over the coming weeks.

Jeff Masters

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hey xcool, do you have an image from the gfs for tuesday and wednesday next week?
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 25 Comments: 8360
Quoting xcool:
GFS AND NAM NAIL ITT !!!


Post the GFS Please.
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623. xcool
unf97 YEAH
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622. xcool
GFS AND NAM NAIL ITT !!!
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621. unf97
Quoting xcool:


GFS depicting 4 inch snowfall bullseye very near Houston metro area.
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620. xcool
. weatherman874 why ??!!!
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Quoting xcool:


I'm going to be biting my nails for this!
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Quoting xcool:

I would like a bullseye on Houston to go, please.
Member Since: August 3, 2008 Posts: 16 Comments: 5890
617. xcool
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
My forecast. Sorry, but I have no desire to see snow nor cold. A bit chilly on day 3.

Chance of a Thunderstorm
83° F | 70° F
28° C | 21° C

Chance of Rain
83° F | 61° F
28° C | 16° C

Partly Cloudy
77° F | 63° F
25° C | 17° C

Partly Cloudy
81° F | 65° F
27° C | 18° C

Chance of Rain
81° F | 68° F
27° C | 20° C
Chance of T-storms
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For Lake Charles "excessive snowfall" is any at all.
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468. franciscolopezus
. . . the most advanced math available to science. When I see graphs like these, with NASA, NOAA and CRU data, I would certainly pay serious attention.

I do not want to sound elitist but, Science has become so complex and technical that is almost impossible to be a renaissance man and understand everything and be versed on it.

Plato once said that Democracy was the weakest of the government systems because most people were not philosophers. This seems to be holding today and the big interests (I am in the middle of them) have a big time party.

Interestingly, our founding fathers never mention the word Democracy in the nation's originating docs and, in order for the 'we the people' to hold, created a complex and relatively inefficient government structure, with checks and balances and a representative democracy, fight of factions and balance of interests doctrines. Then, most people were illiterate.

Now, the body of knowledge is too big for anyone to have a big hold on it, and these relative ignorance is the food that feeds the propaganda machines of the special interests, which have the actual legal obligation of making profits or face criminal and civil charges.

In the absence of economic means for other factions to protect society from results from the fiduciary obligations of the corporate side of the special interests, our government intervenes, as the ultimate risk manager, so a neutral balance occurs (at least in theory). That's why, in part, we fund independent scientific research.


Thank you for a thoughtful analysis.
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613. xcool
new gfs come out soon i will post itttt
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...WINTER STORM WARNING IN EFFECT FROM NOON FRIDAY TO 9 AM CST
SATURDAY...

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN LAKE CHARLES HAS ISSUED A WINTER
STORM WARNING FOR EXCESSIVE SNOWFALL...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM NOON
FRIDAY TO 9 AM CST SATURDAY. THE WINTER STORM WATCH IS NO LONGER
IN EFFECT.

RAIN WILL CHANGE TO A RAIN/SNOW MIXTURE BY EARLY AFTERNOON
FRIDAY...CHANGING OVER TO ALL SNOW BY LATE FRIDAY AFTERNOON AND
EVENING. ACCUMULATIONS OF 1.5 TO 2 INCHES ARE LIKELY...WITH
LOCALIZED AMOUNTS UP TO 3 INCHES POSSIBLE...ESPECIALLY ACROSS
INTERIOR SOUTHEAST TEXAS. THE SNOW WILL BE ENDING FROM WEST TO
EAST ACROSS THE REGION BY MIDNIGHT.
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 25 Comments: 8360
651
fxus64 kjan 040301 aaa
afdjan


Area forecast discussion...updated
National Weather Service Jackson MS
901 PM CST Thursday Dec 3 2009


Update...couple sites across the arklamiss are cooling slightly
faster than originally thought this evening and bumped min temperatures for
tonight at hbg/tvr/glh down a degree or two as a result. Increasing
high level cloud cover from the SW will help keep temperatures from really
bottoming out by morning. Made slight adjustments to sky cover based
on latest satellite trends with low level cloud cover eroding...
giving way to increasing high level cloud cover.


Snowfall forecast for Friday evening still on track based on latest
model guidance available. Did add a slight chance of snow to far
southwestern zones tomorrow afternoon as latest model soundings show
a deep subfreezing layer developing in this area...with wet-bulb
zero heights dropping to near 1400 feet allowing for the possibility of
some snow mixed with rain reaching the surface. Not expecting any
snow accumulation through the afternoon hours tomorrow. Locations for
possible snowfall greater than 2 inches through 12z Sat looks to be
handled well by the current Winter Storm Watch and will not make any
changes. Updates are out. /Bk/ec/

Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 129093
Quoting Patrap:
00Z nam Contiguous United States Forecast Accumulated Precip Type: Animation


Pat Fox 8 is really putting the hopes down tonight
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00Z nam Contiguous United States Forecast Accumulated Precip Type: Animation
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 129093
608. BtnTx
Quoting Patrap:
.."I dont know what "Snow" is,but my Keeper,Patrap is running around grabbing Gloves, funny hats and scarfs and Galoshes for this Snow trip Tomorrow".

Is snow Edible I wonder..?

Oh,..and I do Lurk some ya know?






I hope you teach your pet not to eat "the yellow snow"
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i took a first shot...
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GOM WV Loop

Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 129093
Quoting atmoaggie:

Well, ya know, at some point every Aggie gets called boss...

(yankin yer chain t-dude!)


LOL sorry! I was busy with filling my room with Christmas lights :PP
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 25 Comments: 8360
Saw one in March 84 real Wide,Norway,near a Fjord.Got a pic somewhere.

Cold 12 inch snow the next day.
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 129093
Quoting 1900hurricane:

You could always look yourself? :P

Well, ya know, at some point every Aggie gets called boss...

(yankin yer chain t-dude!)
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That GFS is looking really friendly to me!


Nice .5+ inch QPF bullseye right over my location...


All snow too!!!


And then followed by a very cold night near 20*F. Looking pretty good for accumulations! Now we just have to see how well the GFS's forecast verifies...
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Quoting Patrap:


They mentioned it was over the NWS Office today.

Hah, now I see it in the discussion:

A BROKEN DECK OF CIRROCUMULUS CLOUDS WERE PRESENT AT LAUNCH ALONG WITH A HOLE PUNCH CLOUD ABOVE THE OFFICE.

I really did see it with my own eyes, too...
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My forecast discussion:
IN THE EXTENDED...FOCUS CONTINUES TO BE ON POTENTIAL SIGNIFICANT
STORM FOR TUESDAY-WEDNESDAY.
AFTER A QUIET SUNDAY...WEAK FRONT WILL
MOVE ACROSS THE REGION EARLY MONDAY. HAVE INTRODUCED 20 POPS FOR
ENTIRE FORECAST AREA LATE SUNDAY NIGHT AND EARLY MONDAY AS BOUNDARY
PASSES THROUGH. 12Z OP GFS/15Z SREF BOTH INDICATE POTENTIAL FOR A
LIGHT RAIN/SNOW MIX WITH POSSIBLY ENOUGH COLD AIR FOR MAINLY SNOW
NORTH OF I-70. FOCUS THEN TURNS TO LOW PRESSURE DEVELOPING EAST OF
THE ROCKIES EARLY TUESDAY...AND PROGRESSING QUICKLY INTO THE OHIO
VALLEY TUESDAY NIGHT/WEDNESDAY. MAJORITY OF EXTENDED MODELS
INDICATING LOW PRESSURE WILL AFFECT REGION DURING THE TIME PERIOD
BUT AS IS TO BE EXPECTED AT FIVE TO SIX DAYS OUT...DIFFER ON THE
DETAILS FROM RUN TO RUN AND MODEL TO MODEL. 00Z ECMWF/12Z OP GFS
BOTH FAVORING A LESS AMPLIFIED STORM TRACK THROUGH THE OHIO/
TENNESSEE VALLEYS. THIS TRACK WOULD FAVOR COLDER WEATHER AND
PRECIPITATION TRANSITIONING FROM A WINTRY MIX TO SNOW FROM SOUTH TO
NORTH. 12Z GFS ENSEMBLE MEAN FAVORING A TRACK DIRECTLY THROUGH
CENTRAL INDIANA WITH MOST BUT NOT ALL INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS CLUSTERED
IN THE OHIO VALLEY. 12Z ECMWF SHOWING MAINLY RAIN FOR MUCH OF THE
AREA WITH A RAPIDLY DEEPENING SYSTEM FOLLOWING A LAKE CUTTER PATH
INTO THE GREAT LAKES. AT THIS POINT WITH SO MUCH UNCERTAINTY SEVERAL
DAYS OUT...TRENDED TOWARDS HPC GUIDANCE AND PREVIOUS FORECAST
THOUGHTS INDICATING A RAIN/SNOW MIX SOUTH AND MAINLY SNOW NORTH.
WITH GREATER CONFIDENCE ON TIMING IMPACTS...DID INCREASE TO 40 POPS
TUESDAY NIGHT AND WEDNESDAY. ALSO UNDERCUT TEMPERATURES FOR MUCH OF
NEXT WEEK...WITH MOST LOCATIONS REMAINING IN THE 30S FOR HIGHS
THROUGH THE PERIOD.
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 25 Comments: 8360
Quoting atmoaggie:
Saw something just like this Slidell today at about 5 pm. A hole-punch cloud...really odd...



They mentioned it was over the NWS Office today.

519
fxus64 klix 040055
afdlix


Area forecast discussion
National Weather Service New Orleans la
655 PM CST Thursday Dec 3 2009


Update...
sounding discussion...


The atmosphere remains dry with northerly winds up to 5000 feet
shifting to southwesterly aloft. A few inversions are present
above 900 mb along with a large area of dry air in the middle levels.
A broken deck of cirrocumulus clouds were present at launch along
with a hole punch cloud above the office.


&&


Previous discussion... /issued 354 PM CST Thursday Dec 3 2009/


Short term...


A snow event for portions of southeast Louisiana and southern
Mississippi is looking more likely for Friday night. As a
result...have decided to issue a winter weather watch for most of
southeast Louisiana north of the I-12 corridor. This watch also
extends into southern Mississippi. A Winter Weather Advisory has
been posted for areas along the Mississippi coast...due to a bit
warmer surface temperature and later start time for the snow.
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 129093
598. beell
SPC now with 5 tornado reports for yesterday.
The early one in FL and 4 in GA.
2 injuries.

SPC Storm Reports Wedneday, 12/02/09
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Quoting 1900hurricane:

You could always look yourself? :P


I was too busy hanging Christmas lights in my dorm :) thanks!
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 25 Comments: 8360
Saw something just like this in Slidell today at about 5 pm. A hole-punch cloud...really odd...

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Quoting tornadodude:
So I've been reading my forecast discussion, and the ones for my surrounding area, and we might get an inch on sunday night, then on tuesday and wednesday next week, a low pressure system is supposed to track across my area and bring me some significant snow, definitely looking forward to that!

can someone post a gfs model that goes that far out?

thanks!

You could always look yourself? :P
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
So I've been reading my forecast discussion, and the ones for my surrounding area, and we might get an inch on sunday night, then on tuesday and wednesday next week, a low pressure system is supposed to track across my area and bring me some significant snow, definitely looking forward to that!

can someone post a gfs model that goes that far out?

thanks!
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 25 Comments: 8360
Quoting Bordonaro:
NWS Ft Worth, TX Weather Radar



So I'm guessing the blue is snow huh? ;)
Member Since: August 2, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 1240
NWS Ft Worth, TX Weather Radar

Member Since: August 25, 2009 Posts: 20 Comments: 6785
Quoting Patrap:
.."I dont know what "Snow" is,but my Keeper,Patrap is running around grabbing Gloves, funny hats and scarfs and Galoshes for this Snow trip Tomorrow".

Is snow Edible I wonder..?

Oh,..and I do Lurk some ya know?







That is one beautiful dog! She looks pretty cool with your reading glasses on! Don't feel bad, I am so far-sighted now, I've got to hold everything 3FT from my eyes to read it :0).
Member Since: August 25, 2009 Posts: 20 Comments: 6785
589. xcool
Patrap lmao
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Lubbock, TX NWS Weather Radar

Member Since: August 25, 2009 Posts: 20 Comments: 6785
Lafayette, Purdue University Airport
Lat: 40.43 Lon: -86.93 Elev: 623
Last Update on Dec 3, 8:54 pm EST

Fair

32 °F
(0 °C)
Humidity: 56 %
Wind Speed: W 13 MPH
Barometer: 30.10" (1019.6 mb)
Dewpoint: 18 °F (-8 °C)
Wind Chill: 23 °F (-5 °C)
Visibility: 10.00 mi.
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 25 Comments: 8360
OMG hahaha!! I love it Pat. She's beautiful.
Member Since: August 2, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 1240
Quoting Patrap:
.."I dont know what "Snow" is,but my Keeper,Patrap is running around grabbing Gloves, funny hats and scarfs and Galoshes for this Snow trip Tomorrow".

Is snow Edible I wonder..?

Oh,..and I do Lurk some ya know?







LOL that is great!
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 25 Comments: 8360
Quoting Bordonaro:


Gotta LOVE IT! Hey, there is plenty of warmth here in TX, come on down!


haha just might have to! My grandparents live in Grand Prairie
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 25 Comments: 8360
.."I dont know what "Snow" is,but my Keeper,Patrap is running around grabbing Gloves, funny hats and scarfs and Galoshes for this Snow trip Tomorrow".

Is snow Edible I wonder..?

Oh,..and I do Lurk some ya know?



Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 129093
Quoting tornadodude:


haha yeah, and to go with that, below zero temperatures and negative 30 windchills! :PP


Gotta LOVE IT! Hey, there is plenty of warmth here in TX, come on down!
Member Since: August 25, 2009 Posts: 20 Comments: 6785
581. xcool
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Quoting louisianaboy444:


The Ground is too warm for the snow to stick it should melt rather quickly small accumlations might be possible on buildings and bridges


It may snow hard enough to cover cars, roof tops and grassy areas. The lil bit of snow we had yesterday stuck on those surfaces, and it was near 71F last weekend in Arlington, TX
Member Since: August 25, 2009 Posts: 20 Comments: 6785
Quoting Bordonaro:


Believe me, I am sure that you'll have at least a 24-36IN of snow between now and Early April!!


haha yeah, and to go with that, below zero temperatures and negative 30 windchills! :PP
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 25 Comments: 8360
Quoting alaina1085:


Hammond seems like a good choice! And I remember pictures of Nola Roux you posted! Hehe.. she will definately have a field day in the snow! Dont forget the pics, I would love to see that.


Nola Roux is Updating her Facebook Page right now and will upload a new pic of herself here
in few she just Barked.

Woof!
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 129093
Quoting louisianaboy444:


The Ground is too warm for the snow to stick it should melt rather quickly small accumlations might be possible on buildings and bridges

Fine Ill make a snow man outta the snow on my car! :p
Member Since: August 2, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 1240
Quoting alaina1085:


Im in SELA. Ascension parish. But I think I may be a bit to south for the snow to stick. Our low is gonna be right at 32, so idk.


The Ground is too warm for the snow to stick it should melt rather quickly small accumlations might be possible on buildings and bridges
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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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