The Manufactured Doubt industry and the hacked email controversy

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 3:07 PM GMT on November 25, 2009

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In 1954, the tobacco industry realized it had a serious problem. Thirteen scientific studies had been published over the preceding five years linking smoking to lung cancer. With the public growing increasingly alarmed about the health effects of smoking, the tobacco industry had to move quickly to protect profits and stem the tide of increasingly worrisome scientific news. Big Tobacco turned to one the world's five largest public relations firms, Hill and Knowlton, to help out. Hill and Knowlton designed a brilliant Public Relations (PR) campaign to convince the public that smoking is not dangerous. They encouraged the tobacco industry to set up their own research organization, the Council for Tobacco Research (CTR), which would produce science favorable to the industry, emphasize doubt in all the science linking smoking to lung cancer, and question all independent research unfavorable to the tobacco industry. The CTR did a masterful job at this for decades, significantly delaying and reducing regulation of tobacco products. George Washington University epidemiologist David Michaels, who is President Obama's nominee to head the Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA), wrote a meticulously researched 2008 book called, Doubt is Their Product: How Industry's Assault on Science Threatens Your Health. In the book, he wrote: "the industry understood that the public is in no position to distinguish good science from bad. Create doubt, uncertainty, and confusion. Throw mud at the anti-smoking research under the assumption that some of it is bound to stick. And buy time, lots of it, in the bargain". The title of Michaels' book comes from a 1969 memo from a tobacco company executive: "Doubt is our product since it is the best means of competing with the 'body of fact' that exists in the minds of the general public. It is also the means of establishing a controversy". Hill and Knowlton, on behalf of the tobacco industry, had founded the "Manufactured Doubt" industry.

The Manufactured Doubt industry grows up
As the success of Hill and Knowlton's brilliant Manufactured Doubt campaign became apparent, other industries manufacturing dangerous products hired the firm to design similar PR campaigns. In 1967, Hill and Knowlton helped asbestos industry giant Johns-Manville set up the Asbestos Information Association (AIA). The official-sounding AIA produced "sound science" that questioned the link between asbestos and lung diseases (asbestos currently kills 90,000 people per year, according to the World Health Organization). Manufacturers of lead, vinyl chloride, beryllium, and dioxin products also hired Hill and Knowlton to devise product defense strategies to combat the numerous scientific studies showing that their products were harmful to human health.

By the 1980s, the Manufactured Doubt industry gradually began to be dominated by more specialized "product defense" firms and free enterprise "think tanks". Michaels wrote in Doubt is Their Product about the specialized "product defense" firms: "Having cut their teeth manufacturing uncertainty for Big Tobacco, scientists at ChemRisk, the Weinberg Group, Exponent, Inc., and other consulting firms now battle the regulatory agencies on behalf of the manufacturers of benzene, beryllium, chromium, MTBE, perchlorates, phthalates, and virtually every other toxic chemical in the news today....Public health interests are beside the point. This is science for hire, period, and it is extremely lucrative".

Joining the specialized "product defense" firms were the so-called "think tanks". These front groups received funding from manufacturers of dangerous products and produced "sound science" in support of their funders' products, in the name of free enterprise and free markets. Think tanks such as the George C. Marshall Institute, Competitive Enterprise Institute, Heartland Institute, and Dr. Fred Singer's SEPP (Science and Environmental Policy Project) have all been active for decades in the Manufactured Doubt business, generating misleading science and false controversy to protect the profits of their clients who manufacture dangerous products.

The ozone hole battle
In 1975, the chlorofluorocarbon (CFC) industry realized it had a serious problem. The previous year, Sherry Rowland and Mario Molina, chemists at the University of California, Irvine, had published a scientific paper warning that human-generated CFCs could cause serious harm to Earth's protective ozone layer. They warned that the loss of ozone would significantly increase the amount of skin-damaging ultraviolet UV-B light reaching the surface, greatly increasing skin cancer and cataracts. The loss of stratospheric ozone could also significantly cool the stratosphere, potentially causing destructive climate change. Although no stratospheric ozone loss had been observed yet, CFCs should be banned, they said. The CFC industry hired Hill and Knowlton to fight back. As is essential in any Manufactured Doubt campaign, Hill and Knowlton found a respected scientist to lead the effort--noted British scientist Richard Scorer, a former editor of the International Journal of Air Pollution and author of several books on pollution. In 1975, Scorer went on a month-long PR tour, blasting Molina and Rowland, calling them "doomsayers", and remarking, "The only thing that has been accumulated so far is a number of theories." To complement Scorer's efforts, Hill and Knowlton unleashed their standard package of tricks learned from decades of serving the tobacco industry:

- Launch a public relations campaign disputing the evidence.

- Predict dire economic consequences, and ignore the cost benefits.

- Use non-peer reviewed scientific publications or industry-funded scientists who don't publish original peer-reviewed scientific work to support your point of view.

- Trumpet discredited scientific studies and myths supporting your point of view as scientific fact.

- Point to the substantial scientific uncertainty, and the certainty of economic loss if immediate action is taken.

- Use data from a local area to support your views, and ignore the global evidence.

- Disparage scientists, saying they are playing up uncertain predictions of doom in order to get research funding.

- Disparage environmentalists, claiming they are hyping environmental problems in order to further their ideological goals.

- Complain that it is unfair to require regulatory action in the U.S., as it would put the nation at an economic disadvantage compared to the rest of the world.

- Claim that more research is needed before action should be taken.

- Argue that it is less expensive to live with the effects.

The campaign worked, and CFC regulations were delayed many years, as Hill and Knowlton boasted in internal documents. The PR firm also took credit for keeping public opinion against buying CFC aerosols to a minimum, and helping change the editorial positions of many newspapers.

In the end, Hill and Knowlton's PR campaign casting doubt on the science of ozone depletion by CFCs turned out to have no merit. Molina and Rowland were awarded the Nobel Prize in 1995. The citation from the Nobel committee credited them with helping to deliver the Earth from a potential environmental disaster.

The battle over global warming
In 1988, the fossil fuel industry realized it had a serious problem. The summer of 1988 had shattered century-old records for heat and drought in the U.S., and NASA's Dr. James Hansen, one of the foremost climate scientists in the world, testified before Congress that human-caused global warming was partially to blame. A swelling number of scientific studies were warning of the threat posed by human-cause climate change, and that consumption of fossil fuels needed to slow down. Naturally, the fossil fuel industry fought back. They launched a massive PR campaign that continues to this day, led by the same think tanks that worked to discredit the ozone depletion theory. The George C. Marshall Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, Heartland Institute, and Dr. Fred Singer's SEPP (Science and Environmental Policy Project) have all been key players in both fights, and there are numerous other think tanks involved. Many of the same experts who had worked hard to discredit the science of the well-established link between cigarette smoke and cancer, the danger the CFCs posed to the ozone layer, and the dangers to health posed by a whole host of toxic chemicals, were now hard at work to discredit the peer-reviewed science supporting human-caused climate change.

As is the case with any Manufactured Doubt campaign, a respected scientist was needed to lead the battle. One such scientist was Dr. Frederick Seitz, a physicist who in the 1960s chaired the organization many feel to be the most prestigious science organization in the world--the National Academy of Sciences. Seitz took a position as a paid consultant for R.J. Reynolds tobacco company beginning in 1978, so was well-versed in the art of Manufactured Doubt. According to the excellent new book, Climate Cover-up, written by desmogblog.com co-founder James Hoggan and Richard Littlemore, over a 10-year period Seitz was responsible for handing out $45 million in tobacco company money to researchers who overwhelmingly failed to link tobacco to anything the least bit negative. Seitz received over $900,000 in compensation for his efforts. He later became a founder of the George C. Marshall Institute, and used his old National Academy of Sciences affiliation to lend credibility to his attacks on global warming science until his death in 2008 at the age of ninety-six. It was Seitz who launched the "Oregon Petition", which contains the signatures of more than 34,000 scientists saying global warming is probably natural and not a crisis. The petition is a regular feature of the Manufactured Doubt campaign against human-caused global warming. The petition lists the "Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine" as its parent organization. According to Climate Cover-up, the Institute is a farm shed situated a couple of miles outside of Cave Junction, OR (population 17,000). The Institute lists seven faculty members, two of whom are dead, and has no ongoing research and no students. It publishes creationist-friendly homeschooler curriculums books on surviving nuclear war. The petition was sent to scientists and was accompanied by a 12-page review printed in exactly the same style used for the prestigious journal, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. A letter from Seitz, who is prominently identified as a former National Academy of Sciences president, accompanied the petition and review. Naturally, many recipients took this to be an official National Academy of Sciences communication, and signed the petition as a result. The National Academy issued a statement in April 2008, clarifying that it had not issued the petition, and that its position on global warming was the opposite. The petition contains no contact information for the signers, making it impossible to verify. In its August 2006 issue, Scientific American presented its attempt to verify the petition. They found that the scientists were almost all people with undergraduate degrees, with no record of research and no expertise in climatology. Scientific American contacted a random sample of 26 of the 1,400 signatories claiming to have a Ph.D. in a climate related science. Eleven said they agreed with the petition, six said they would not sign the petition today, three did not remember the petition, one had died, and five did not respond.

I could say much more about the Manufactured Doubt campaign being waged against the science of climate change and global warming, but it would fill an entire book. In fact, it has, and I recommend reading Climate Cover-up to learn more. The main author, James Hoggan, owns a Canadian public relations firm, and is intimately familiar with how public relations campaigns work. Suffice to say, the Manufactured Doubt campaign against global warming--funded by the richest corporations in world history--is probably the most extensive and expensive such effort ever. We don't really know how much money the fossil fuel industry has pumped into its Manufactured Doubt campaign, since they don't have to tell us. The website exxonsecrets.org estimates that ExxonMobil alone spent $20 million between 1998 - 2007 on the effort. An analysis done by Desmogblog's Kevin Grandia done in January 2009 found that skeptical global warming content on the web had doubled over the past year. Someone is paying for all that content.

Lobbyists, not skeptical scientists
The history of the Manufactured Doubt industry provides clear lessons in evaluating the validity of their attacks on the published peer-reviewed climate change science. One should trust that the think tanks and allied "skeptic" bloggers such as Steve McIntyre of Climate Audit and Anthony Watts of Watts Up With That will give information designed to protect the profits of the fossil fuel industry. Yes, there are respected scientists with impressive credentials that these think tanks use to voice their views, but these scientists have given up their objectivity and are now working as lobbyists. I don't like to call them skeptics, because all good scientists should be skeptics. Rather, the think tanks scientists are contrarians, bent on discrediting an accepted body of published scientific research for the benefit of the richest and most powerful corporations in history. Virtually none of the "sound science" they are pushing would ever get published in a serious peer-reviewed scientific journal, and indeed the contrarians are not scientific researchers. They are lobbyists. Many of them seem to believe their tactics are justified, since they are fighting a righteous war against eco-freaks determined to trash the economy.

I will give a small amount of credit to some of their work, however. I have at times picked up some useful information from the contrarians, and have used it to temper my blogs to make them more balanced. For example, I no longer rely just on the National Climatic Data Center for my monthly climate summaries, but instead look at data from NASA and the UK HADCRU source as well. When the Hurricane Season of 2005 brought unfounded claims that global warming was to blame for Hurricane Katrina, and a rather flawed paper by researchers at Georgia Tech showing a large increase in global Category 4 and 5 hurricanes, I found myself agreeing with the contrarians' analysis of the matter, and my blogs at the time reflected this.

The contrarians and the hacked CRU emails
A hacker broke into an email server at the Climate Research Unit of the UK's University of East Anglia last week and posted ten years worth of private email exchanges between leading scientists who've published research linking humans to climate change. Naturally, the contrarians have seized upon this golden opportunity, and are working hard to discredit several of these scientists. You'll hear claims by some contrarians that the emails discovered invalidate the whole theory of human-caused global warming. Well, all I can say is, consider the source. We can trust the contrarians to say whatever is in the best interests of the fossil fuel industry. What I see when I read the various stolen emails and explanations posted at Realclimate.org is scientists acting as scientists--pursuing the truth. I can see no clear evidence that calls into question the scientific validity of the research done by the scientists victimized by the stolen emails. There is no sign of a conspiracy to alter data to fit a pre-conceived ideological view. Rather, I see dedicated scientists attempting to make the truth known in face of what is probably the world's most pervasive and best-funded disinformation campaign against science in history. Even if every bit of mud slung at these scientists were true, the body of scientific work supporting the theory of human-caused climate change--which spans hundreds of thousands of scientific papers written by tens of thousands of scientists in dozens of different scientific disciplines--is too vast to be budged by the flaws in the works of the three or four scientists being subject to the fiercest attacks.

Exaggerated claims by environmentalists
Climate change contrarians regularly complain about false and misleading claims made by ideologically-driven environmental groups regarding climate change, and the heavy lobbying these groups do to influence public opinion. Such efforts confuse the real science and make climate change seem more dangerous than it really is, the contrarians argue. To some extent, these concerns are valid. In particular, environmentalists are too quick to blame any perceived increase in hurricane activity on climate change, when such a link has yet to be proven. While Al Gore's movie mostly had good science, I thought he botched the treatment of hurricanes as well, and the movie looked too much like a campaign ad. In general, environmental groups present better science than the think tanks do, but you're still better off getting your climate information directly from the scientists doing the research, via the latest Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report. Another good source is Bob Henson's Rough Guide to Climate Change, aimed at people with high-school level science backgrounds.

Let's look at the amount of money being spent on lobbying efforts by the fossil fuel industry compared to environmental groups to see their relative influence. According to Center for Public Integrity, there are currently 2,663 climate change lobbyists working on Capitol Hill. That's five lobbyists for every member of Congress. Climate lobbyists working for major industries outnumber those working for environmental, health, and alternative energy groups by more than seven to one. For the second quarter of 2009, here is a list compiled by the Center for Public Integrity of all the oil, gas, and coal mining groups that spent more than $100,000 on lobbying (this includes all lobbying, not just climate change lobbying):

Chevron $6,485,000
Exxon Mobil $4,657,000
BP America $4,270,000
ConocoPhillips $3,300,000
American Petroleum Institute $2,120,000
Marathon Oil Corporation $2,110,000
Peabody Investments Corp $1,110,000
Bituminous Coal Operators Association $980,000
Shell Oil Company $950,000
Arch Coal, Inc $940,000
Williams Companies $920,000
Flint Hills Resources $820,000
Occidental Petroleum Corporation $794,000
National Mining Association $770,000
American Coalition for Clean Coal Electricity $714,000
Devon Energy $695,000
Sunoco $585,000
Independent Petroleum Association of America $434,000
Murphy Oil USA, Inc $430,000
Peabody Energy $420,000
Rio Tinto Services, Inc $394,000
America's Natural Gas Alliance $300,000
Interstate Natural Gas Association of America $290,000
El Paso Corporation $261,000
Spectra Energy $279,000
National Propane Gas Association $242,000
National Petrochemical & Refiners Association $240,000
Nexen, Inc $230,000
Denbury Resources $200,000
Nisource, Inc $180,000
Petroleum Marketers Association of America $170,000
Valero Energy Corporation $160,000
Bituminous Coal Operators Association $131,000
Natural Gas Supply Association $114,000
Tesoro Companies $119,000

Here are the environmental groups that spent more than $100,000:

Environmental Defense Action Fund $937,500
Nature Conservancy $650,000
Natural Resources Defense Council $277,000
Earthjustice Legal Defense Fund $243,000
National Parks and Conservation Association $175,000
Sierra Club $120,000
Defenders of Wildlife $120,000
Environmental Defense Fund $100,000

If you add it all up, the fossil fuel industry outspent the environmental groups by $36.8 million to $2.6 million in the second quarter, a factor of 14 to 1. To be fair, not all of that lobbying is climate change lobbying, but that affects both sets of numbers. The numbers don't even include lobbying money from other industries lobbying against climate change, such as the auto industry, U.S. Chamber of Commerce, etc.

Corporate profits vs. corporate social responsibility
I'm sure I've left the impression that I disapprove of what the Manufactured Doubt industry is doing. On the contrary, I believe that for the most part, the corporations involved have little choice under the law but to protect their profits by pursuing Manufactured Doubt campaigns, as long as they are legal. The law in all 50 U.S. states has a provision similar to Maine's section 716, "The directors and officers of a corporation shall exercise their powers and discharge their duties with a view to the interest of the corporation and of the shareholders". There is no clause at the end that adds, "...but not at the expense of the environment, human rights, the public safety, the communities in which the corporation operates, or the dignity of employees". The law makes a company's board of directors legally liable for "breach of fiduciary responsibility" if they knowingly manage a company in a way that reduces profits. Shareholders can and have sued companies for being overly socially responsible, and not paying enough attention to the bottom line. We can reward corporations that are managed in a socially responsible way with our business and give them incentives to act thusly, but there are limits to how far Corporate Socially Responsibility (CSR) can go. For example, car manufacturer Henry Ford was successfully sued by stockholders in 1919 for raising the minimum wage of his workers to $5 per day. The courts declared that, while Ford's humanitarian sentiments about his employees were nice, his business existed to make profits for its stockholders.

So, what is needed is a fundamental change to the laws regarding the purpose of a corporation, or new regulations forcing corporations to limit Manufactured Doubt campaigns. Legislation has been introduced in Minnesota to create a new section of law for an alternative kind of corporation, the SR (Socially Responsible) corporation, but it would be a long uphill battle to get such legislation passed in all 50 states. Increased regulation limiting Manufactured Doubt campaigns is possible to do for drugs and hazardous chemicals--Doubt is Their Product has some excellent suggestions on that, with the first principle being, "use the best science available; do not demand certainty where it does not and cannot exist". However, I think such legislation would be difficult to implement for environmental crises such as global warming. In the end, we're stuck with the current system, forced to make critical decisions affecting all of humanity in the face of the Frankenstein monster our corporate system of law has created--the most vigorous and well-funded disinformation campaign against science ever conducted.

Have a great Thanksgiving, everyone, and I'll be back Monday--the last day of hurricane season--with a review of the hurricane season of 2009.

Jeff Masters

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1500. aquak9
Much nicer, grothar.

The Carol Burnett Show. 'Twas the highlight of my life, at the time.

sigh...
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1499. Grothar
Quoting aquak9:


I love you, man. We musta grown up with at the same time.


Must have aqua! Nicer days, weren't they?
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1498. Drakoen
12z model tracks on the future Gulf of Mexico Low Pressure System:


Figure 1. Dynamic models



Figure 2. SREF Ensembles
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1497. Grothar
Quoting AwakeInMaryland:
'blogquote'>Quoting PalmBeachWeather:
Grothar.I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but let me guess.You are trying to say that "Tim Tebow is the greatest college player ever" Am I close ?


PBW...Whatever he's saying...it's probably the worst case scenario; wise guy that he is. I think his mother-in-law DID impose a pre-emptive ban. Look again at what he said to me:

Please remove the rod if things get that bad for you!!!

It's been a long time since I was accused of being a tight-a(censored)!


I meant the curtain-rod Awake!!! My, getting daring now are we? You know I love you more than my luggage!!! What was that one wrote in the year books...."Stay as sweet as you are."
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1496. Grothar
Quoting swampliliy:


I heard that! I live in St Petersburg a little north of you. Here, it's more like "Okay, one two three- lets bite the living h*ll out of this stupid, d*mn Yankeeeeee- GO!" :)


swampliliy: just noticed your Norman Rockwell painting of Laurel and Hardy. Interesting you should have that. We just attended a showing of his works at the Museum of Art in Broward County. (Ft. Lauderdale) Amazing display of his prints. What an eye. The stories behind the painting are as interesting as the subjects themselves.
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'blogquote'>Quoting PalmBeachWeather:
Grothar.I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but let me guess.You are trying to say that "Tim Tebow is the greatest college player ever" Am I close ?

PBW...Whatever he's saying...it's probably the worst case scenario; wise guy that he is. I think his mother-in-law DID impose a pre-emptive ban. Look again at what he said to me:

Please remove the rod if things get that bad for you!!!

It's been a long time since I was accused of being a tight-a(censored)!
Member Since: August 19, 2008 Posts: 32 Comments: 1918
1494. aquak9
Quoting Grothar:


That's Mrs. HaWiggins to you.


I love you, man. We musta grown up with at the same time.
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...the Muppets' new "Bohemian Rhapsody" parody just may be the king of all Queen tributes:

the-muppets-new-viral-video-rhapsody

I have a strong suspicion that Admin. is going to be watching "moi" very carefully in the coming days...

Grothar, I'm going to miss you. I know you're going to be traveling...but that was extreme punishment for your mother-in-law to put you in "time out." (j/k)

Pottery, I think it's wonderful how you and Taz are so sympatico. BTW, I do expect a Diary installment tonight, perhaps our last before Admin comes back in with a vengeance, lol...they're coming to take me away, ha ha.
Member Since: August 19, 2008 Posts: 32 Comments: 1918
1492. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod)
Quoting Tazmanian:
hurricane season is overe do day is the last day of it yay



what go party


33 hrs to go
nothing more from this
ya all got lucky this time around
in 6 months we do it all again
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Quoting pottery:
Hello, Taz.
what go party for sure. Anytime.
How you do?



am doing well
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Quoting Grothar:



I knew I could count on you. Wish I could post a graphic, but HAHAHAHAHAHAHA should suffice. At least the brain stem is still connected.

By the way, what fray?? I haven't noticed anything unusual except some funny posts. Have I missed something important?????

By the way, here is a little quote for you.

Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers. - Voltaire


I just stay away from all the GW stuff. And haven't had the time recently to be here.
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1489. Grothar
Quoting PalmBeachWeather:
Grothar.I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but let me guess.You are trying to say that "Tim Tebow is the greatest college player ever" Am I close ?


Tim who?
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Quoting PalmBeachWeather:
swamplily..Fire ants have a strange way of attacking. They silently climb upon your leg and wait until there are 1,217 ants on your leg. Then the leader say "1...2...3... GO, Not a pleaant situation


I heard that! I live in St Petersburg a little north of you. Here, it's more like "Okay, one two three- lets bite the living h*ll out of this stupid, d*mn Yankeeeeee- GO!" :)
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1487. Grothar
Quoting pottery:
LOL, Gro.
But still, "you are a better man than I am,....."


Zing! Got me again.
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1486. Grothar
Quoting PalmBeachWeather:
Awake.I remember that skit well.That was the day when TV had great shows...I laugh every time I think of Tim Conway asking Ms. Wiggins a question.


That's Mrs. HaWiggins to you.
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1485. pottery
Hello, Taz.
what go party for sure. Anytime.
How you do?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Grothar.I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but let me guess.You are trying to say that "Tim Tebow is the greatest college player ever" Am I close ?
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1483. Grothar
Quoting AwakeInMaryland:

LOL!
If this economy and unemployment continue, I will be wearing the curtains, too.
Oh, I'm remembering the famous Carol Burnett skit where she is wearing the drapes and the curtain rod...making myself laugh!
P.S. Thnx. for the WU note, re Gunga Din. Now I remember...CRAFT disease...can't remember a f(censored) thing.


Remember when Harvey Korman said your dress is beautiful and Carol Burnett said, "Oh, it was just something I saw hanging in a window". Still laugh at that. Please remove the rod if things get that bad for you!!!
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1482. pottery
LOL, Gro.
But still, "you are a better man than I am,....."
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1481. Grothar
As some of you know, I shall have to leave again. I may not be able to share the little repartee with you all for a while. Please all stay well and play nice. I will miss you, but in the event I am not able to drop in here for a few weeks have a Happy Holiday!
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hurricane season is overe do day is the last day of it yay



what go party
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Awake.I remember that skit well.That was the day when TV had great shows...I laugh every time I think of Tim Conway asking Ms. Wiggins a question.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
swamplily..Fire ants have a strange way of attacking. They silently climb upon your leg and wait until there are 1,217 ants on your leg. Then the leader say "1...2...3... GO, Not a pleaant situation
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Quoting Grothar:


My, Awake, you are sounding more like Scarlett every day!

LOL!
If this economy and unemployment continue, I will be wearing the curtains, too.
Oh, I'm remembering the famous Carol Burnett skit where she is wearing the drapes and the curtain rod...making myself laugh!
P.S. Thnx. for the WU note, re Gunga Din. Now I remember...CRAFT disease...can't remember a f(censored) thing.
Member Since: August 19, 2008 Posts: 32 Comments: 1918
1476. Grothar
Quoting pottery:
"Judge a man by his questions..."

"Have I missed something....?"

Those 2 quotes are from the same post.
I am still trying to come to terms with them.
heheheheh


Nothing gets by you, does it pot? Even catch the irony, don't you? Wish I had had students like you in my classes.
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Quoting PalmBeachWeather:
swamplily.I have been finding lots of dead ants myself

LOL! By your handle, bet they're fire ants-hope they're dead!
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1474. Grothar
Quoting AwakeInMaryland:
1467. Thank you for posting, Pat! Gosh it sounds interesting.

1464. I'm very queasy about the death penalty; but none of us who live around here were sorry to see the Beltway Sniper go to Hell (thank you, Virginia).

I'm guessing you probably know that China put some officials to death for their part in the tainted food scandal -- I hope that has or will include the tainted pet food scandal.


My, Awake, you are sounding more like Scarlett every day!
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swamplily.I have been finding lots of dead ants myself
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1472. pottery
"Judge a man by his questions..."

"Have I missed something....?"

Those 2 quotes are from the same post.
I am still trying to come to terms with them.
heheheheh
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Post #1465-PcolaDan- researching Ancestry and "finding lots of dead ends..."

Unintentional, but very funny! ;-))
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1470. IKE
1467. Thank you for posting, Pat! Gosh it sounds interesting.

1464. I'm very queasy about the death penalty; but none of us who live around here were sorry to see the Beltway Sniper go to Hell (thank you, Virginia).

I'm guessing you probably know that China put some officials to death for their part in the tainted food scandal -- I hope that has or will include the tainted pet food scandal.

Just want to make clear I am NOT advocating for or against death penalty. The McLaughlin Group this morning had the stats that say the U.S. has 5 percent of the world's population, and 25 percent of the world's incarcerated -- probability being that many in jail/prison are in for drugs, including marijuana.

Unfair is a huge understatement.
Member Since: August 19, 2008 Posts: 32 Comments: 1918
1468. Grothar
Quoting PcolaDan:




All Orca's fault. Got the original idea from him.

My 87 year old Father signed up at ancestry.com and elected me to do the research. Been keeping me well occupied. Lot of dead ends but I keep reading. Otherwise, I stay away from the fray in here. Still lurk though.



I knew I could count on you. Wish I could post a graphic, but HAHAHAHAHAHAHA should suffice. At least the brain stem is still connected.

By the way, what fray?? I haven't noticed anything unusual except some funny posts. Have I missed something important?????

By the way, here is a little quote for you.

Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers. - Voltaire
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
1467. Patrap
Pulitzer winner to hold discussion

Jed Horne, distinguished visiting lecturer in the University of Southern Mississippi College of Arts and Letters, will offer a weeklong examination of Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath during a mini-session set for Jan. 11-15 on the Gulf Coast campus.

Horne is the former metro editor of The Times-Picayune in New Orleans, which garnered two Pulitzer Prizes for its coverage of Hurricane Katrina. He is also the author of the critically acclaimed "Breach of Faith: Hurricane Katrina and the Near Death of a Great American City."

Horne plans to feature a number of guest speakers in the class, which will meet from 8 a.m.-5 p.m. They will include storm surge expert Ivor van Heerden; WLOX-TV News Director Dave Vincent; filmmaker Lolis Elie; photojournalist Ted Jackson; New Orleans schools reformer Sarah Usdin; John Jopling and Reilly Morse of the Mississippi Center for Justice; and several other experts and municipal leaders.

Undergraduate students have the opportunity to take the seminar as an interdisciplinary course, IDS 490, Interdisciplinary Seminar, or as MCJ 480, Seminar in Journalism. Master's students can enroll in MCJ 580, Seminar in Journalism.

Members of the public who are interested in taking the course without pursuing a degree can apply for admission as non-degree seeking students by contacting the Southern Miss Gulf Coast Office of Admissions at (228) 214-3444.

More information about the January mini-session is available at www.usm.edu/minisession. For more information, contact Dr. Christopher Campbell, director of the Southern Miss School of Mass Communication and Journalism, at 266-4258 or christopher.campbell@usm.edu.
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Interesting u mention Ancestry.com, Dan; I just started a Facebook page today for my extensive family, whose members have been brow-beating me recently about the family tree and reunion that has been in the works for literally years.....

I'm out, ya'll.... enjoy the day, and if u can, the fray...
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Quoting Grothar:


Hey Dan, with all those thousands of pictures you have, might you have one that shows a character with a little mind???? How you doing??


Quoting Orcasystems:


Oh no... don't encourage him.. I created a monster when I showed him those... now he has tons of links.


All Orca's fault. Got the original idea from him.

My 87 year old Father signed up at ancestry.com and elected me to do the research. Been keeping me well occupied. Lot of dead ends but I keep reading. Otherwise, I stay away from the fray in here. Still lurk though.
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Quoting AwakeInMaryland:
Well, this sounds absolutely horrible. Wonder if there's any more info yet.
Wasn't the blog discussing coffee trading last night? Sell now.

Official: 4 police officers shot dead in Wash.
15 mins ago
Associated Press

TACOMA, Wash. %u2013 A sheriff's official in Washington state says four police officers have been shot dead in ambush at a coffee house.

Pierce County Sheriff's spokesman Ed Troyer told The News Tribune in Tacoma that the officers were sitting in the coffee shop Sunday morning with their computers when the shooter came in Sunday morning.

He says investigators believe the officers were targeted, and it was not a robbery.

Troyer tells the newspaper "it was just a flat out ambush."

He could not immediately say what agency the officers were from. Police were searching for a male suspect and interviewing witnesses. The coffee shop is near McChord Air Force Base in Tacoma.

"We hopefully will have answers, but there is nothing more we can tell you," Troyer told KING-TV. "That's as cold-hearted as it is."

That's a criminal(s) that'll be living a nightmare. Police officers take the death of their fellow coworkers very personally. That's just disgusting that someone would do that. Sad.

Referencing the link at:
desmogblog.com
There is a vast difference between putting forth a point of view, honestly held, and intentionally sowing the seeds of confusion. Free speech does not include the right to deceive. Deception is not a point of view. And the right to disagree does not include a right to intentionally subvert the public awareness.

Did the tobacco people kill smokers knowingly? Did they distribute false information knowingly? Should we allow people to drive small cars when we know that their risk of dying is increased if they get in an accident?
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Well, this sounds absolutely horrible. Wonder if there's any more info yet.
Wasn't the blog discussing coffee trading last night? Sell now.

Official: 4 police officers shot dead in Wash.
15 mins ago
Associated Press

TACOMA, Wash. – A sheriff's official in Washington state says four police officers have been shot dead in ambush at a coffee house.

Pierce County Sheriff's spokesman Ed Troyer told The News Tribune in Tacoma that the officers were sitting in the coffee shop Sunday morning with their computers when the shooter came in Sunday morning.

He says investigators believe the officers were targeted, and it was not a robbery.

Troyer tells the newspaper "it was just a flat out ambush."

He could not immediately say what agency the officers were from. Police were searching for a male suspect and interviewing witnesses. The coffee shop is near McChord Air Force Base in Tacoma.

"We hopefully will have answers, but there is nothing more we can tell you," Troyer told KING-TV. "That's as cold-hearted as it is."
Member Since: August 19, 2008 Posts: 32 Comments: 1918
Quoting Grothar:


Awake, take a look at the link. It is too funny. I thought they had misspelled Copenhagen. Then, being as astute as I am a took a look at it and realized I had been wrong. Can you imagine anyone on this blog admitting they were wrong????????? Gunga Din! Wonder how many will get that reference?


Grothar- you have WUmail.
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Quoting Grothar:


Awake, take a look at the link. It is too funny. I thought they had misspelled Copenhagen. Then, being as astute as I am a took a look at it and realized I had been wrong. Can you imagine anyone on this blog admitting they were wrong????????? Gunga Din! Wonder how many will get that reference?

I looked after I had already posted! Oh, whoops, my bad! Still think it's a great name for a drink.
Gunga din...whoosh, over me head...I remember the movie only vaguely; never loved Kipling (Kipling, right? maybe?)
Gracie would say good night, except it's an absolutely gorgeous day here, and she should get off this laptop and go outside.
Tomorrow, at Tara, will be a new blog!
Member Since: August 19, 2008 Posts: 32 Comments: 1918
1460. Grothar
Quoting AwakeInMaryland:


Is this a new European Beer?
What concert are they sponsoring?
Where's the link to tour dates, prices and the seating chart?


Awake, take a look at the link. It is too funny. I thought they had misspelled Copenhagen. Then, being as astute as I am a took a look at it and realized I had been wrong. Can you imagine anyone on this blog admitting they were wrong????????? Gunga Din! Wonder how many will get that reference?
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1459. Patrap
As Chairman of a Important Senate Committee,The Senate Committee on Environment & Public Works ..this Senator will be Chairing a Investigation on the Hacked E-mail debate.

Imagine that.


Senators Inhofe's Environmental record

For more information on environmental legislation, see the Energy and Environment Policy Portal

Climate change

Inhofe has a history of opposing environmental groups and global warming initiatives. There are several transcripts of Inhofe speeches on the Senate floor regarding this, offered as documents by his official website:

* July 28, 2003, "The Science of Climate Change"
* October 4, 2004, "Partisan Environmental Groups"
* January 4, 2005, "Climate Change Update"
* April 8, 2005, "First Four Pillars Speech"

On April 28, 2004, Inhofe was honored for his "work in promoting science-based public policy" [4] by the Annapolis Center for Science-Based Public Policy, a think tank that disputes the scientific consensus on the causes and magnitude of global warming. (The think tank has received $658,575 from ExxonMobil since 1998). [5]

Asked in writing in 2004 by journalist Chris Mooney whether Inhofe agrees that he's at odds with the scientific mainstream, his committee staff retorted, "How do you define 'mainstream'? Scientists who accept the so-called 'consensus' about global warming? Galileo was not mainstream." [6]

On September 28, 2005, The Senate Committee on Environment & Public Works held a hearing titled "The Role of Science in Environmental Policy-Making". Inhofe, the committee's chairman opened the hearing stating that: "Today's hearing will focus on one of the three objectives I set out when I assumed the Chairmanship of the Committee %u2013 to ensure that regulatory decisions are based on sound science.Too often the environmental policy decisions made by EPA and other science-based agencies are driven by political or personal agendas. You see this in types of research that gets funded or the types of grants that get awarded. It is my hope this hearing will help shed some light on how science is used by policy-makers and that we can arrive at some concrete suggestions for making the process better." [7]

In 2003, the Natural Resources Defense Council noted that Inhofe "scored zero with the League of Conservation Voters since 1997, was the only senator to oppose Everglades restoration, and once compared the Environmental Protection Agency to the Gestapo." [8]
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Quoting Catfish57:
To the individual who said that Dr. Masters did not have any stake in this matter, well.... check out the Hopenhagen link as a sponsor.


Is this a new European Beer?
What concert are they sponsoring?
Where's the link to tour dates, prices and the seating chart?
Member Since: August 19, 2008 Posts: 32 Comments: 1918
1457. IKE
Quoting Grothar:


By the NFL, you are referring to the National Fear Lobby, I presume?


Nah...National Football League...

Two great games on here(note the sarcasm)...Miami vs. Buffalo and Tampa Bay vs. Atlanta...WOOHOO!!!! Not....
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Quoting Catfish57:
To the individual who said that Dr. Masters did not have any stake in this matter, well.... check out the Hopenhagen link as a sponsor.


I'll be darned.. he's telling the truth
Link
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1455. IKE
Quoting hcubed:


The problem is, there are two blogs: Ricky Rood runs the AGW "climate change" blog.

But if the good doctor wants to discuss AGW, and people want to come out to play, well, I just can't resist.


Yup...you're right...:(
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1454. IKE
Quoting Patrap:
Was that your Leaf burning Plume I saw to my East yesterday Ike ?

I thought I saw a Fleur-De-Lis in it.






LOL!
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1426. Patrap 5:24 PM GMT on November 29, 2009
If one has 20 Bucks and can make it here for Weds Evening,..were gonna Party the End of Cane season in True NOLA fashion..


1428. IKE 5:31 PM GMT on November 29, 2009
Impressive storm system coming out of the GOM on the 12Z GFS @ 78 hours...


Impressive Storm -- Wed., approx.
End of Cane Season Party -- Wed. night
Timing -- Priceless

Did I do the math right?

Member Since: August 19, 2008 Posts: 32 Comments: 1918
1452. Patrap
Check out your Leaders from Both Sides of the aisle and see how well that issues was forumed on Larry King Live.



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1451. hcubed
Quoting IKE:


I was just thinking....seriously...I wish Dr. Masters had 2 blogs...one for weather and the other one for....you know what.

You could come back in here in 5-10 years and it would still be the same.


The problem is, there are two blogs: Ricky Rood runs the AGW "climate change" blog.

But if the good doctor wants to discuss AGW, and people want to come out to play, well, I just can't resist.
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1450. Patrap
I hear Senator Inhofe,R. Oklahoma is starting a wunderblog soon.




That should be interesting.
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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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