A new record minimum for arctic sea ice

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 3:07 PM GMT on November 18, 2009

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Arctic sea ice reached a new record minimum during the first half of November, according to data from the National Snow and Ice Data Center (Figure 1). The record low ice extent this month is the first extended period of record minimum arctic sea ice since 2007. The new record minimum suggests that the gains in ice seen over the past two years were probably a temporary fluctuation due to normal year-to-year variability in the weather, and that the long-term arctic sea ice decline observed since the 1970s is continuing.


Figure 1. Arctic sea ice extent up to November 16, 2009, compared to the record low year of 2007 and the average from 1979 - 2000. Sea ice extent over the past ten days has fallen below the record minimum observed in 2007. Image credit: National Snow and Ice Data Center.

What caused the new record low?
The record low was due to very warm air invading the Arctic during October, in combination with the unusually warm ocean temperatures that have prevailed in the region over the past few decades. The warm air temperatures were primarily the result of an intense series of low pressure systems in the Arctic Ocean, north of Siberia, that worked in concert with a very strong high pressure system north of Alaska to drive warm air from Central Asia poleward over the past six weeks. The strong storms and unusual pressure pattern brought winds of about 5 mph above average to large regions of the Arctic Ocean, which helped break up existing ice and kept ice from freezing as much as usual. With all that warm air flowing into the Arctic, the cold air that was there had to go somewhere else, and that "somewhere else" was North America. The U.S. recorded its 3rd coldest October on record in 2009, thanks to cold air flowing out of the Arctic. The temperature and sea level pressure patterns over the Northern Hemisphere for October (Figure 2) were highly anomalous, with temperatures up to 27°F (15°C) above average over the Arctic Ocean, and sea level pressures up to 11 mb above average. The atmospheric circulation pattern has shifted over the past two weeks, with the result that warm air from Central Asia is no longer being pumped into the Arctic so vigorously, nor is cold air from the Arctic streaming southward into North America. As a result, temperature anomalies in the Arctic are beginning to decline, and sea ice extent later this month will probably rise above the record minimums observed in 2007.



Figure 2. Departure of surface air temperature and surface pressure from average for October 2009. Surface temperatures in the Arctic were up to 27°F (15°C) above average over the Arctic Ocean, due to sea ice loss. The strongest anomalies occurred where sea ice was missing from its usual position, though the entire Arctic was affected. The clockwise flow of air around the anomalously strong high pressure system north of Alaska (labeled "H" in the right-hand image) helped drive a flow of very warm air from Central Asia into the Arctic, and a very cold flow of air out of the Arctic southward into North America. Image credit: NOAA/ESRL.

How will the November sea ice loss affect next summer's sea ice loss?
A record 19% of the Arctic sea ice cover this summer in the Arctic was over 2 years old, far below the 1981 - 2000 average of 52%. In the summer of 2009, NASA researcher Ron Kwok and colleagues from the University of Washington in Seattle published satellite data showing that mean winter arctic ice thickness declined by 48% between 1980 and 2008. The loss accelerated over the past five years, with the ice losing 0.68 meters (2.2 feet) of thickness between 2004 and 2008, finishing at 6.2 feet thick. This remarkable thinning was confirmed in May 2009 by the Catlin Arctic Survey, a 9-week, 435 km expedition across the Canadian Arctic led by polar scientist Professor Peter Wadhams of the University of Cambridge. Wadhams' expedition found that most of the route had first year ice just 5.9 feet (1.8 meters) thick. With El Niño conditions crossing from the moderate to strong category over the past two weeks in the Eastern Pacific, the prospects for a much warmer than usual winter in the Arctic have increased, likely setting the stage for continued record or near-record minimum sea ice extent and thickness into next spring. The arctic sea ice will be very vulnerable to a new record minimum next summer if warmer than average temperatures are seen over the Arctic.

Sea ice loss causes stronger storms in the Arctic
The stronger storms over the Arctic Ocean this fall were due, in part, to the loss of sea ice. In a 2009 article titled, Extraordinary September Arctic sea ice reductions and their relationships with storm behavior over 1979-2008, Simmonds and Keay found that September storms over the East Arctic intensified by about 1 mb over the past 30 years and had grown about 50 miles larger in diameter, thanks to all the extra heat energy supplied by more open water due to recent losses in Arctic sea ice. These stronger storms may create a positive feedback loop that will lead to even more sea ice loss: reduced sea ice drives stronger storms, whose winds break up sea ice, creating even more warm water to feed stronger storms with stronger winds, and so on. Now that the arctic sea ice is 48% thinner than 30 years ago, this effect will increase in importance, since thinner ice breaks up more readily in strong winds.

Expect an ice-free Arctic by 2030
In a press release put out by the Catlin Arctic Survey, Professor Wadhams said, "The Catlin Arctic Survey data supports the new consensus view--based on seasonal variation of ice extent and thickness, changes in temperatures, winds and especially ice composition--that the Arctic will be ice-free in summer within about 20 years, and that much of the decrease will be happening within 10 years". In their 2009 report on this year's Arctic sea ice minimum, National Snow and Ice Data Center Director and Senior Scientist Dr. Mark Serreze said, "It's nice to see a little recovery over the past couple years, but there's no reason to think that we're headed back to conditions seen back in the 1970s. We still expect to see ice-free summers sometime in the next few decades". At the December 2008 American Geophysical Union (AGU) meeting, the world's largest climate change conference, sea ice expert Dr. Wieslaw Maslowski of the Navy Postgraduate School blamed 60% of the melting during the past decade on heat brought in by ocean currents, and projected that summertime arctic sea ice would completely disappear by 2016. Dr. Jim Overland of NOAA's Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory was more conservative, projecting a 2030 demise of arctic sea ice. He thought we would be "hanging around where we are for a while", and thought it would take two more unusual summers like the "perfect storm" of 2007 to push the system to an ice-free state.

The consequences
There were 88 presentations on arctic sea ice at the 2008 AGU conference. None of the presenters expressed the view that the current long-term decline in arctic sea ice was almost entirely natural, or that we can expect the decline to reverse this century. Sea ice experts do blame part of the decline on natural variability in the weather, but we wouldn't be where we are now without the warming caused by human-emitted greenhouse gases. One view (Stroeve et al., 2007) is that human-emitted greenhouse gases are responsible for 47 - 57% of the arctic sea ice loss since 1979. Heat-absorbing black soot from fires and pollution settling on the white ice is thought to also be a significant contributor.

The consensus I heard at the AGU conference among arctic sea ice experts was that the summertime sea ice will be gone by 2030. If they are correct, we can expect a period of significantly accelerated global climate change to begin 10 - 20 years from now. Arctic sea ice is one of the critical components maintaining the stability of our current climate. Once the the ice is gone, the climate will become unstable, with highly unpredictable results. It is true that Earth's past has many examples of warmer climates that evolved due to natural causes where life flourished, and we shouldn't fear the new, stable climate we will eventually arrive at centuries from now. However, life on Earth is adapted to the current climate. The changes that will occur during the transition will be extremely disruptive to Earth's ecosystems and the humans that rely on them for life. If one were to rate the destructive capability of climate change the way we rate hurricanes, I would rate current climate change at the "Invest" or "tropical disturbance" stage--the climate change storm is just beginning to organize. But the coming climate change storm is destined to hit our children with the full fury of intensifying hurricane.

References
Kwok, R., and D. A. Rothrock. 2009, "Decline in Arctic sea ice thickness from submarine and ICESat records: 1958-2008", Geophys. Res. Lett., 36, L15501, doi:10.1029/2009GL039035

Simmonds, I., and K. Keay (2009), Extraordinary September Arctic sea ice reductions and their relationships with storm behavior over 1979.2008, Geophys. Res. Lett., 36, L19715, doi:10.1029/2009GL039810.

Stroeve, J., M.M. Holland, W. Meier, T. Scambos, and M. Serreze, Arctic sea ice decline:Faster than forecast", GRL 34 L09501, doi:1029/2007GL029703, 2007.

The road to Copenhagen
By some accounts, the future of the world will be at stake this December, when the crucial U.N. Climate Change Conference will be held December 7 - 18 in Copenhagen, Denmark. At that meeting, the leaders of the world will gather to negotiate an agreement to replace the 1997 Kyoto Protocol. The new agreement will be the world's road map for dealing with climate change, and the stakes are huge. Dr. Ricky Rood, author of Wunderground's climate change blog, will be there, and Wunderground has given the University of Michigan a grant to send a student who will also blog for us. I have a number of posts I'm planning in the run-up to Copenhagen, including:

- Impact of arctic sea ice loss on Northern Hemisphere winter weather
- The Manufactured Doubt industry
- What global warming skeptics say about arctic sea ice
- Is higher CO2 more beneficial for Earth's ecosystems?

I'll also have an end-of-hurricane season summary on November 30, plus posts on whatever breaking weather stories occur. My next post will be Friday, when I plan to summarize the global weather last month, which was the 2nd - 6th warmest October on record.

Jeff Masters

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Mrs. Flood (LongStrangeTrip) has promised to keep us updated. His timezone is an hour earlier than me so it's 8:30 there so about 4 1/2 hours until surgery starts.

Quoting AussieStorm:

Any idea how Flood is?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
419. LMAO! i want to see what the diary reads when the bottle of rum is empty!
Member Since: September 14, 2007 Posts: 3 Comments: 3963
Quoting icmoore:
Flood's surgery is at 1:00 today.

Any idea how Flood is?
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432. beell
06Z GFS 850mb
Valid Tomorrow 12Z

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Flood's surgery is at 1:00 today.
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LOL Pottery and Good morning everybody!

It's 62 degrees with an expected high of 78 and mostly sunny here in Melrose, FL.

I wanted to drop in early and say hello to Flood and LST. Thinking about you today and so hoping that this is the first step toward your new pain free life. You deserve it, Flood and I am sending all my positive energy your way today. Take care.
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Quoting P451:
Good Morning. Think of Floodman today.

Meanwhile, the remnant Ida'Easter continues to motor eastward this morning. Persistent comes to mind.


Flood having surgery today?
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Quoting TampaSpin:
Looks like the models are coming together with the NorEaster for Thanksgiving i was fearing.


I've read several articles over the past month about an increase in cyclonic activity in the GOM during an El Nino year. Can't remember exactly which El Nino year but, in the late 70's, they documented 10 occurances. Nothing purely tropical mind you but, the extra & sub tropical variety.
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Good Morning. Looks like another beautiful day here in Douglasville

Douglasville, Georgia
Edit My Favorites - Add to My Email - iCal Feed RSS Feed
Local Time: 7:15 AM EST (GMT -05) — Set My Timezone Lat/Lon: 33.8° N 84.7° W (Google Map)
Current Conditions

Lakemoore at West Lakes, Villa Rica, Georgia (PWS)
Updated: 3 sec ago
Clear
38.5 °F
Clear
Windchill: 38 °F
Humidity: 98%
Dew Point: 38 °F
Wind: 0.0 mph
Wind Gust: 0.0 mph
Pressure: 30.11 in (Rising)
Visibility: 10.0 miles
UV: 0.0 out of 16
Clouds:
Clear -
(Above Ground Level)
Elevation: 1085 ft
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420. IKE
My 25,000th post on WU....

282 hours and 1 minute left and it's officially finished....

TROPICAL WEATHER OUTLOOK
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
700 AM EST THU NOV 19 2009

FOR THE NORTH ATLANTIC...CARIBBEAN SEA AND THE GULF OF MEXICO...

TROPICAL CYCLONE FORMATION IS NOT EXPECTED DURING THE NEXT 48 HOURS.

$$
FORECASTER AVILA
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OK. I think that I will start keeping a Diary, in the format of past diarists who ventured to place their lives on paper, probably because they had noboddy to talk to.

Nov 19- still no rain. things looking grim. cloud appeared briefly yesterday but was blown toward the n/e by disenchanted winds. My neighbour, Mr. Chavez, planning to bomb the sky. He may as well. We seemed to be doomed anyway. Bottle of rum is half empty. Ike says we only have 282 hrs and 1 minute left.
Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 23080
Morning all.

On the dryer issue, in the Bahamas, dryers are still considered luxury items by many. Pple who use them tend to do so only in protracted periods of wet weather and/or at "washhouses" (laundromats). Most pple here, even apartment dwellers and condominium owners, have at least a small clothes line or access to one, and most make regular use thereof.
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Quoting AwakeInMaryland:
Why does the world make it so difficult to just do one good right thing -- and a very small thing at that. Don't get me wrong, I do like my dryer -- but I wonder if this isn't particularly and peculiarly American; I can't imagine this even being an issue in the rest of the world.

U.S. residents fight for the right to hang laundry


Widespread adoption of clotheslines could significantly reduce U.S. energy consumption, argued Lee, who said dryer use accounts for about 6 percent of U.S. residential electricity use.

Florida, Utah, Maine, Vermont, Colorado, and Hawaii have passed laws restricting the rights of local authorities to stop residents using clotheslines. Another five states are considering similar measures, said Lee, 35, a former lawyer who quit to run the non-profit group.


no way clothes lines will replace dryers, though i wish they would, because there's 6 small washers in my school's dorms and 8 humongous dryers but if we just hung them up instead..... but i can't control that...
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Quoting Drakoen:
The GFS long-range runs for the later part of next week has been showing a significant trough with a dramatic cool down for Black Friday and Thanksgiving weekend. If the forecast verifies, we will probably see the coldest temperatures yet.


Figure 1. GFS 500mb geopotential height anomalies.


Figure 2. GFS 850mb temperature anomalies


O boy...I can't wait!!!
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415. xcool
Temp
42.1°FWi.nd Chill: 42°F
Humidity: 98%
Dew Point: 42°F
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Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:

may it rest in peace

Although little, there is a chance that could reorganize (very little chance of regeneration, though).
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Quoting Bobbyweather:
Ida has finally dissipated.
"THE REMNANT LOW PRESSURE CENTER OF IDA HAS
DISSIPATED." From 105 EST THU NOV 19 2009 Tropical Weather Discussion

may it rest in peace
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Ida has finally dissipated.
"THE REMNANT LOW PRESSURE CENTER OF IDA HAS
DISSIPATED." From 105 EST THU NOV 19 2009 Tropical Weather Discussion
Member Since: Posts: Comments:

CMC 90hours out (4days)


GFS 84hours out....

Then this all goes up the EAST Coast as a NorEaster 120hours out
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Hey Flood
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Howdy, folks
Member Since: August 2, 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 9922
Looks like the models are coming together with the NorEaster for Thanksgiving i was fearing.
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Say, Dan, are you one of the guys who wore a kilt? Turn on Nightline, quick.
Scotsman stands up to The Donald!

Ha! What a great stubborn Scots-Dude in a kilt! Fie on you, Trump!
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Quoting PcolaDan:


Just looked on his blog, SWMBO still having side effects from flu, so I suspect he's not been on much.

Ohhhh, thanks for checking his blog.
So sorry to hear that.
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Quoting AwakeInMaryland:
SO, did anyone ever hear from that Canadian, Orca? Glub glub glub glub


Just looked on his blog, SWMBO still having side effects from flu, so I suspect he's not been on much.
Member Since: August 22, 2008 Posts: 12 Comments: 6010
SO, did anyone ever hear from that Canadian, Orca? Glub glub glub glub
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Quoting BahaHurican:
Sorry to comment and run all, but I didn't realize how late it is!

G'night, all!

Night, Baha, I liked your posts.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Sorry to comment and run all, but I didn't realize how late it is!

G'night, all!
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Quoting tramp96:
392 "First think I'd suggest is that the Dow Chem. offshoot which is making solar panels for other people should make and install some solar panels for their own factories, which could then reduce the amount of carbon-based energy required to run the plants"

I think they would have already done that if it was plausible
So they need to make it plausible. I seriously doubt that they can't make solar panels that would work well enough to reduce their carbon footprint. Once they can clean their own house, they have a working model of how to do it for other energy-intensive manufacturers and even power companies.

Not being willing to commit their own solar plants to solar energy suggests a wee bit of faithlessness in the process.... IMO.

Quoting VAbeachhurricanes:


its colder than average because.... GW makes it... dang now its global climate change... When does the climate not change? its not a stagnant being it moves, it flows... It not going to remain a constant temperature. It will fluctuate, it has since the beginning of time, the 20 plus ice ages this world has seen weren't caused by "everything we do is bad we should hate ourselves" humans, and the next one wont be either.
All this is true, but not automatically meaning we are NOT having an effect on our environment, including climate.
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Why does the world make it so difficult to just do one good right thing -- and a very small thing at that. Don't get me wrong, I do like my dryer -- but I wonder if this isn't particularly and peculiarly American; I can't imagine this even being an issue in the rest of the world.

U.S. residents fight for the right to hang laundry


Widespread adoption of clotheslines could significantly reduce U.S. energy consumption, argued Lee, who said dryer use accounts for about 6 percent of U.S. residential electricity use.

Florida, Utah, Maine, Vermont, Colorado, and Hawaii have passed laws restricting the rights of local authorities to stop residents using clotheslines. Another five states are considering similar measures, said Lee, 35, a former lawyer who quit to run the non-profit group.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Surely, there is now enough evidence to show that our mistreatment of the ecology is having a negative impact on most forms of life on the Planet. Including ours.
It is foolhardy to proceed as normal, on the off chance that we have had no effect on the Climate.
Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 23080
Quoting Bryant193wx:
...U.S. Posts Third Coolest-Highest Precipitation for October on Record...
The October 2009 average temperature for the contiguous United States was the third coolest on record for that month according to NOAA's State of the Climate report issued today. Based on data going back to 1895, the monthly National Climatic Data Center analysis is part of the suite of climate services provided by NOAA. Details...
October Temps
Pretty Neat Information Huh?
- Bryant A.
TarHeelWeather.com


its colder than average because.... GW makes it... dang now its global climate change... When does the climate not change? its not a stagnant being it moves, it flows... It not going to remain a constant temperature. It will fluctuate, it has since the beginning of time, the 20 plus ice ages this world has seen weren't caused by "everything we do is bad we should hate ourselves" humans, and the next one wont be either.
Member Since: September 6, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 5695
...U.S. Posts Third Coolest-Highest Precipitation for October on Record...
The October 2009 average temperature for the contiguous United States was the third coolest on record for that month according to NOAA's State of the Climate report issued today. Based on data going back to 1895, the monthly National Climatic Data Center analysis is part of the suite of climate services provided by NOAA. Details...
October Temps
Pretty Neat Information Huh?
- Bryant A.
TarHeelWeather.com
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
392 "First think I'd suggest is that the Dow Chem. offshoot which is making solar panels for other people should make and install some solar panels for their own factories, which could then reduce the amount of carbon-based energy required to run the plants"

I think they would have already done that if it was plausible
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392. What a very good post.
Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 23080
Quoting tramp96:


Can he sell the carbon offset to the arctic ice pack?
Coal is the cheapest way besides hydro and nuke to produce elect.
As I stated before I am all for clean fuel. I believe fossil fuels are just a stepping stone in our evolution
One more thing on the guy who invented the internet. Some people that I have talked to are glad he made the movie, they think it is total BS but it got people thinking about conservation.
What I like about Mr. Gore is that he is aware of the possible effects of his actions and is trying to be responsible about them. The carbon offset may not have a reversing effect on the Artic icepack meltdown, but it may fund research into technologies that will help us cope with the consequences. As some one said earlier, adjustment is mandadory. To my mind, Mr. Gore should be commended for at least trying to put his money where his mouth is.
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Quoting jpritch:
385. Gore does not have a private jet. He does sometimes fly on one, though records show he has purchased carbon offsets for his jet and other fossil fuel use.

Re coal fired plants, it is not realistic to shut them down right now. It IS realistic to make enough of a shift not to have to build any new ones. Totally doable, and in fact it would save money, which is why many cities are offering incentives for people to switch to renewables and become more efficient.

Re solar panels, new technology is making solar panels more durable, flexible, lighter weight, and much cheaper and cleaner to produce. Times and technology change thank goodness.

There are also many other advances in solar energy that do not involve panels. Here's one, for example:
Thermoelectric Generator


Can he sell the carbon offset to the arctic ice pack?
Coal is the cheapest way besides hydro and nuke to produce elect.
As I stated before I am all for clean fuel. I believe fossil fuels are just a stepping stone in our evolution
One more thing on the guy who invented the internet. Some people that I have talked to are glad he made the movie, they think it is total BS but it got people thinking about conservation.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting pearlandaggie:
295. what if we come to find out this was all predicated on bad data/assumptions and a political agenda? i'm fully willing to take my share of the responsibility in the event i'm wrong despite sticking to scientific principles and striving for data accuracy and honest analysis. are you willing to accept your share of the blame for the potential waste of trillions of dollars chasing a problem that may not exist or whose cause may be mostly or totally natural when those funds could be used to feed people or supply clean drinking water, medicines or housing?
The problem with this for me is that time creates some harsh judges, but the people who will suffer the consequences in the future won't be able to punish whichever group is "wrong". A simple historical example is another energy issue. At some point in the past, parts of the US became dependent on slavery as its source of labour "energy". When challenged, those with heavy investments in the related industries fought a war rather than give up their business model. 100 years later, these people's descendents no longer agree with the viability of their ancestors' actions. But what can we do? From whom would "reparations" for descendants of slaves be demanded? The wrong-doers have been dead for generations.

I think the obvious way to handle the AGW issue is to immediately seek and apply methods which reduce ALL forms of pollution to the minimum possible. Even if one does not agree with the position of the AGW theorists, I find it hard to understand why anyone would object to a cleaner environment or attempt to justify continued widespread pollution.

Quoting VAbeachhurricanes:


the antarctic ice field is growing... so you cant say the ice is going to disappear...


I think the climate change that people are expecting goes much beyond a simple "disappearance" of ice around the world. Even if the total volume of ice worldwide remains the same, changes in the location of that ice could have some remarkable impacts on weather patterns and climate zones. Changes in the northern hemisphere's climate are also more likely to directly affect a much larger percentage of the world's population than similar changes at the south pole.

Quoting CrazyDuke:
The reason I have learned to stay out of this and other debates is because there is no point in arguing logic and facts with people who do not base their decisions on them.

...and most, for the most part, don't.
I'm glad everybody hasn't stayed out of it, though. There have been some interesting and informative points made this evening, making me a more informed person on this topic, which I appreciate. Someone commented on the high quality of the discussion today, and I have to agree.

Quoting tramp96:


Only because they got all over him. How about his private jet?

I am going to srart a new job soon,installing the power lines to Hemlock Semiconductor. They are an offshoot of Dow Chemical you know that evil American greedy corp. that does nothing but pollute. Anyway they make the stuff for solar panels but they use a lot of power. The pwer is supplied by TVA and they have a lot of coal fired plants. So what are your answers,shut the coal plants down now or keep working in an adult manor so we can find cleaner energies for tomorrow. Everybody wants cleaner energy but realistic solutions and not scare tactics are what we need certainly not Kyoto treaties.
First think I'd suggest is that the Dow Chem. offshoot which is making solar panels for other people should make and install some solar panels for their own factories, which could then reduce the amount of carbon-based energy required to run the plants.

I am noticing quite a few comments about increasing energy independence by switching to solar / wind / etc. I'd like to add developing alternative energy sources means the traditional sources, like oil / nat. gas / coal, which are finite, can then be conserved for those situations when other sources are not plausible. I'm comparing one person's 54mpg in their "hybid" car to my meagre 28mpg in a full gas model. By cutting fossil fuel use in half, we (at least potentially) can extend the availability of that fuel considerably.

In the same way that people still use horses, bicycles etc., I think there is a place for fossil fuel use in the future, even a century from now. Of course, that won't be possible if we continue using those fuels at the current rate....
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The GFS long-range runs for the later part of next week has been showing a significant trough with a dramatic cool down for Black Friday and Thanksgiving weekend. If the forecast verifies, we will probably see the coldest temperatures yet.


Figure 1. GFS 500mb geopotential height anomalies.


Figure 2. GFS 850mb temperature anomalies
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
385. Gore does not have a private jet. He does sometimes fly on one, though records show he has purchased carbon offsets for his jet and other fossil fuel use.

Re coal fired plants, it is not realistic to shut them down right now. It IS realistic to make enough of a shift not to have to build any new ones. Totally doable, and in fact it would save money, which is why many cities are offering incentives for people to switch to renewables and become more efficient.

Re solar panels, new technology is making solar panels more durable, flexible, lighter weight, and much cheaper and cleaner to produce. Times and technology change thank goodness.

There are also many other advances in solar energy that do not involve panels. Here's one, for example:
Thermoelectric Generator
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting quasigeostropic:
Sea ice experts do blame part of the decline on natural variability in the weather, but we wouldn't be where we are now without the warming caused by human-emitted greenhouse gases. One view (Stroeve et al., 2007) is that human-emitted greenhouse gases are responsible for 47 - 57% of the arctic sea ice loss since 1979. Heat-absorbing black soot from fires and pollution settling on the white ice is thought to also be a significant contributor.

Eventually, they will say EVERYTHING that goes wrong on this earth is due to AGW. Jeff Masters, you are such a smart guy......I just dont know how you can fall for this AGW myth...I guess it pays big to go with the IPCC popular opinion...


Wow, because a person differs in opinion from you they are only doing it to get a big payoff (as your comment implies)? So, do you have the answer for colonization of the moon too?
Member Since: August 22, 2008 Posts: 12 Comments: 6010
That is so wierd to see the remnants of Ida still spinning out there
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Sea ice experts do blame part of the decline on natural variability in the weather, but we wouldn't be where we are now without the warming caused by human-emitted greenhouse gases. One view (Stroeve et al., 2007) is that human-emitted greenhouse gases are responsible for 47 - 57% of the arctic sea ice loss since 1979. Heat-absorbing black soot from fires and pollution settling on the white ice is thought to also be a significant contributor.

Eventually, they will say EVERYTHING that goes wrong on this earth is due to AGW. Jeff Masters, you are such a smart guy......I just dont know how you can fall for this AGW myth...I guess it pays big to go with the IPCC popular opinion...
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Quoting PcolaDan:


Thank you, did not know that.


Hey, Dan, "The Life of Riley"
Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 63 Comments: 23710
Quoting jpritch:
369. That's out of date. Now, regardless of how much energy the home (which also includes their offices, not just living space) uses, most - if not all - comes from renewable sources. The home is now gold LEED certified. factcheck.org


Only because they got all over him. How about his private jet?

I am going to srart a new job soon,installing the power lines to Hemlock Semiconductor. They are an offshoot of Dow Chemical you know that evil American greedy corp. that does nothing but pollute. Anyway they make the stuff for solar panels but they use a lot of power. The pwer is supplied by TVA and they have a lot of coal fired plants. So what are your answers,shut the coal plants down now or keep working in an adult manor so we can find cleaner energies for tomorrow. Everybody wants cleaner energy but realistic solutions and not scare tactics are what we need certainly not Kyoto treaties.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:

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About JeffMasters

Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.