A new record minimum for arctic sea ice

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 3:07 PM GMT on November 18, 2009

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Arctic sea ice reached a new record minimum during the first half of November, according to data from the National Snow and Ice Data Center (Figure 1). The record low ice extent this month is the first extended period of record minimum arctic sea ice since 2007. The new record minimum suggests that the gains in ice seen over the past two years were probably a temporary fluctuation due to normal year-to-year variability in the weather, and that the long-term arctic sea ice decline observed since the 1970s is continuing.


Figure 1. Arctic sea ice extent up to November 16, 2009, compared to the record low year of 2007 and the average from 1979 - 2000. Sea ice extent over the past ten days has fallen below the record minimum observed in 2007. Image credit: National Snow and Ice Data Center.

What caused the new record low?
The record low was due to very warm air invading the Arctic during October, in combination with the unusually warm ocean temperatures that have prevailed in the region over the past few decades. The warm air temperatures were primarily the result of an intense series of low pressure systems in the Arctic Ocean, north of Siberia, that worked in concert with a very strong high pressure system north of Alaska to drive warm air from Central Asia poleward over the past six weeks. The strong storms and unusual pressure pattern brought winds of about 5 mph above average to large regions of the Arctic Ocean, which helped break up existing ice and kept ice from freezing as much as usual. With all that warm air flowing into the Arctic, the cold air that was there had to go somewhere else, and that "somewhere else" was North America. The U.S. recorded its 3rd coldest October on record in 2009, thanks to cold air flowing out of the Arctic. The temperature and sea level pressure patterns over the Northern Hemisphere for October (Figure 2) were highly anomalous, with temperatures up to 27°F (15°C) above average over the Arctic Ocean, and sea level pressures up to 11 mb above average. The atmospheric circulation pattern has shifted over the past two weeks, with the result that warm air from Central Asia is no longer being pumped into the Arctic so vigorously, nor is cold air from the Arctic streaming southward into North America. As a result, temperature anomalies in the Arctic are beginning to decline, and sea ice extent later this month will probably rise above the record minimums observed in 2007.



Figure 2. Departure of surface air temperature and surface pressure from average for October 2009. Surface temperatures in the Arctic were up to 27°F (15°C) above average over the Arctic Ocean, due to sea ice loss. The strongest anomalies occurred where sea ice was missing from its usual position, though the entire Arctic was affected. The clockwise flow of air around the anomalously strong high pressure system north of Alaska (labeled "H" in the right-hand image) helped drive a flow of very warm air from Central Asia into the Arctic, and a very cold flow of air out of the Arctic southward into North America. Image credit: NOAA/ESRL.

How will the November sea ice loss affect next summer's sea ice loss?
A record 19% of the Arctic sea ice cover this summer in the Arctic was over 2 years old, far below the 1981 - 2000 average of 52%. In the summer of 2009, NASA researcher Ron Kwok and colleagues from the University of Washington in Seattle published satellite data showing that mean winter arctic ice thickness declined by 48% between 1980 and 2008. The loss accelerated over the past five years, with the ice losing 0.68 meters (2.2 feet) of thickness between 2004 and 2008, finishing at 6.2 feet thick. This remarkable thinning was confirmed in May 2009 by the Catlin Arctic Survey, a 9-week, 435 km expedition across the Canadian Arctic led by polar scientist Professor Peter Wadhams of the University of Cambridge. Wadhams' expedition found that most of the route had first year ice just 5.9 feet (1.8 meters) thick. With El Niño conditions crossing from the moderate to strong category over the past two weeks in the Eastern Pacific, the prospects for a much warmer than usual winter in the Arctic have increased, likely setting the stage for continued record or near-record minimum sea ice extent and thickness into next spring. The arctic sea ice will be very vulnerable to a new record minimum next summer if warmer than average temperatures are seen over the Arctic.

Sea ice loss causes stronger storms in the Arctic
The stronger storms over the Arctic Ocean this fall were due, in part, to the loss of sea ice. In a 2009 article titled, Extraordinary September Arctic sea ice reductions and their relationships with storm behavior over 1979-2008, Simmonds and Keay found that September storms over the East Arctic intensified by about 1 mb over the past 30 years and had grown about 50 miles larger in diameter, thanks to all the extra heat energy supplied by more open water due to recent losses in Arctic sea ice. These stronger storms may create a positive feedback loop that will lead to even more sea ice loss: reduced sea ice drives stronger storms, whose winds break up sea ice, creating even more warm water to feed stronger storms with stronger winds, and so on. Now that the arctic sea ice is 48% thinner than 30 years ago, this effect will increase in importance, since thinner ice breaks up more readily in strong winds.

Expect an ice-free Arctic by 2030
In a press release put out by the Catlin Arctic Survey, Professor Wadhams said, "The Catlin Arctic Survey data supports the new consensus view--based on seasonal variation of ice extent and thickness, changes in temperatures, winds and especially ice composition--that the Arctic will be ice-free in summer within about 20 years, and that much of the decrease will be happening within 10 years". In their 2009 report on this year's Arctic sea ice minimum, National Snow and Ice Data Center Director and Senior Scientist Dr. Mark Serreze said, "It's nice to see a little recovery over the past couple years, but there's no reason to think that we're headed back to conditions seen back in the 1970s. We still expect to see ice-free summers sometime in the next few decades". At the December 2008 American Geophysical Union (AGU) meeting, the world's largest climate change conference, sea ice expert Dr. Wieslaw Maslowski of the Navy Postgraduate School blamed 60% of the melting during the past decade on heat brought in by ocean currents, and projected that summertime arctic sea ice would completely disappear by 2016. Dr. Jim Overland of NOAA's Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory was more conservative, projecting a 2030 demise of arctic sea ice. He thought we would be "hanging around where we are for a while", and thought it would take two more unusual summers like the "perfect storm" of 2007 to push the system to an ice-free state.

The consequences
There were 88 presentations on arctic sea ice at the 2008 AGU conference. None of the presenters expressed the view that the current long-term decline in arctic sea ice was almost entirely natural, or that we can expect the decline to reverse this century. Sea ice experts do blame part of the decline on natural variability in the weather, but we wouldn't be where we are now without the warming caused by human-emitted greenhouse gases. One view (Stroeve et al., 2007) is that human-emitted greenhouse gases are responsible for 47 - 57% of the arctic sea ice loss since 1979. Heat-absorbing black soot from fires and pollution settling on the white ice is thought to also be a significant contributor.

The consensus I heard at the AGU conference among arctic sea ice experts was that the summertime sea ice will be gone by 2030. If they are correct, we can expect a period of significantly accelerated global climate change to begin 10 - 20 years from now. Arctic sea ice is one of the critical components maintaining the stability of our current climate. Once the the ice is gone, the climate will become unstable, with highly unpredictable results. It is true that Earth's past has many examples of warmer climates that evolved due to natural causes where life flourished, and we shouldn't fear the new, stable climate we will eventually arrive at centuries from now. However, life on Earth is adapted to the current climate. The changes that will occur during the transition will be extremely disruptive to Earth's ecosystems and the humans that rely on them for life. If one were to rate the destructive capability of climate change the way we rate hurricanes, I would rate current climate change at the "Invest" or "tropical disturbance" stage--the climate change storm is just beginning to organize. But the coming climate change storm is destined to hit our children with the full fury of intensifying hurricane.

References
Kwok, R., and D. A. Rothrock. 2009, "Decline in Arctic sea ice thickness from submarine and ICESat records: 1958-2008", Geophys. Res. Lett., 36, L15501, doi:10.1029/2009GL039035

Simmonds, I., and K. Keay (2009), Extraordinary September Arctic sea ice reductions and their relationships with storm behavior over 1979.2008, Geophys. Res. Lett., 36, L19715, doi:10.1029/2009GL039810.

Stroeve, J., M.M. Holland, W. Meier, T. Scambos, and M. Serreze, Arctic sea ice decline:Faster than forecast", GRL 34 L09501, doi:1029/2007GL029703, 2007.

The road to Copenhagen
By some accounts, the future of the world will be at stake this December, when the crucial U.N. Climate Change Conference will be held December 7 - 18 in Copenhagen, Denmark. At that meeting, the leaders of the world will gather to negotiate an agreement to replace the 1997 Kyoto Protocol. The new agreement will be the world's road map for dealing with climate change, and the stakes are huge. Dr. Ricky Rood, author of Wunderground's climate change blog, will be there, and Wunderground has given the University of Michigan a grant to send a student who will also blog for us. I have a number of posts I'm planning in the run-up to Copenhagen, including:

- Impact of arctic sea ice loss on Northern Hemisphere winter weather
- The Manufactured Doubt industry
- What global warming skeptics say about arctic sea ice
- Is higher CO2 more beneficial for Earth's ecosystems?

I'll also have an end-of-hurricane season summary on November 30, plus posts on whatever breaking weather stories occur. My next post will be Friday, when I plan to summarize the global weather last month, which was the 2nd - 6th warmest October on record.

Jeff Masters

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Quoting AwakeInMaryland:


I'm a Gemini, too...I often have to plead the 5th!

(Apologies, Squawk, that was in retribution for Grothar's bad puns...not as clever as his, though. BBL, glad the blog is a bit on the lighter side, now. My brain had to think SO much this a.m.)


It's OK. Rocky Geminer is a pilot I used to fly with doing R&D work back at Pax River NAS.
Member Since: December 9, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 2498
Quoting SQUAWK:
When GW or AGW is concerned,it is important to keep in mind Rocky Geminer's 5th rule:

Any facts can be made to fit any theory by means of appropriate additional assumptions.


I'm a Gemini, too...I often have to plead the 5th!

(Apologies, Squawk, that was in retribution for Grothar's bad puns...not as clever as his, though. BBL, glad the blog is a bit on the lighter side, now. My brain had to think SO much this a.m.)
Member Since: August 19, 2008 Posts: 32 Comments: 1918
Hey there, Flood! It's Flood and the darlin's, dudes, and dears :) Hi to LST and everyone else!
Been thinkin' about you dude! What time is your opening tomorrow?
You'll be up and dancin' in no time and we will all help you pass the time.
Member Since: July 18, 2005 Posts: 9 Comments: 4146
alright, I have to leave the lab, and return to my laptop, so I shall return in approx. half an hour or so.
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 24 Comments: 8201
When GW or AGW is concerned,it is important to keep in mind Rocky Geminer's 5th rule:

Any facts can be made to fit any theory by means of appropriate additional assumptions.
Member Since: December 9, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 2498
Quoting AwakeInMaryland:

I think I can say the WU blog approves of that activity. Even the Manufactured Doubters, lol, whatever the phrase that Doc Masters used in his blog today. I never heard that expression before, I think AtmoAggie 'bout busted a gut (I don't think he's on right now.)

Our weather has been lovely for the last few days, 50s, 60s, even 70s, but is going downhill fast...grey again...I'm wondering if this is the beginning phase of the next N'oreaster that a few have been warning us about. E-yuk.

Hope you're well, seems like your weather could use some improvement lately too. I wish you the snow you desire, and not us! DC people are notorious for not knowing how to drive in weather...neither north nor south.


well I think it should be approved lol

and sounds like your weather has been nice, and yea, mine has been quite dismal.

Definitely looking forward to the snow! (:
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 24 Comments: 8201
Quoting Grothar:


Can you give us the full spin on them?
Quoting AwakeInMaryland:

Groan. Grothar, we do care about you, so we're going to warn you in advance that we do have "ignore" buttons.


yeah seriously, you and your constant attempts at humor..... hahaha jk Grothar, I'll whip it out later when the research is done
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 24 Comments: 8201
Quoting Grothar:


Can you give us the full spin on them?

Groan. Grothar, we do care about you, so we're going to warn you in advance that we do have "ignore" buttons.
Member Since: August 19, 2008 Posts: 32 Comments: 1918
Quoting AwakeInMaryland:
OMG! Well, as long as it's not coffee or beer!

from CNN.money.com

Kellogg is rationing its Eggo products due to flooding and equipment problems at two bakeries. The shortfall could last through mid-2010.

Better hoard your Eggos!

Grocery stores will be experiencing a shortage of the waffles until mid-2010 due to problems at two bakeries, a Kellogg's spokeswoman said on Wednesday.

Flooding at an Atlanta bakery during heavy rains in October forced Kellogg, which makes Eggo products, to shut down production temporarily, said company spokesman Kris Charles. Plus, equipment at Kellogg's largest waffle facility, based in Rossville, Tenn., needs extensive repairs.


Now we know why they declared that area a disaster area,eggo shortage!!!
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting tornadodude:


how's the weather?

I'm in my EAS lab researching wind turbines

I think I can say the WU blog approves of that activity. Even the Manufactured Doubters, lol, whatever the phrase that Doc Masters used in his blog today. I never heard that expression before, I think AtmoAggie 'bout busted a gut (I don't think he's on right now.)

Our weather has been lovely for the last few days, 50s, 60s, even 70s, but is going downhill fast...grey again...I'm wondering if this is the beginning phase of the next N'oreaster that a few have been warning us about. E-yuk.

Hope you're well, seems like your weather could use some improvement lately too. I wish you the snow you desire, and not us! DC people are notorious for not knowing how to drive in weather...neither north nor south.
Member Since: August 19, 2008 Posts: 32 Comments: 1918
Quoting tornadodude:


LOL well I'm researching the good and bad of wind turbines for my EAS class, you?


Can you give us the full spin on them?
Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 69 Comments: 25352
Quoting Floodman:


Dude! Waht's the haps?


LOL well I'm researching the good and bad of wind turbines for my EAS class, you?
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 24 Comments: 8201
Quoting tornadodude:
afternoon all


Or even: The Dude abides...LOL
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting tornadodude:
afternoon all


Dude! Waht's the haps?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting ConchHondros:
lol @ Boss lady...the sherpa line never gets old, I cant catch Brown off guard...he is quick, but Madison...I can get him to spit milk through his nose


I'd pay to see that...he gets that red color round his ears right after, yeah?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting pearlandaggie:
210. oh, my! my mental eye is scorched! LOL


BLIND! Blind, I tell you!
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Quoting AwakeInMaryland:

l'eggo my eggo!

Bonjour, Monsieur T-Dude!


how's the weather?

I'm in my EAS lab researching wind turbines
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 24 Comments: 8201
Quoting tornadodude:
afternoon all

l'eggo my eggo!

Bonjour, Monsieur T-Dude!
Member Since: August 19, 2008 Posts: 32 Comments: 1918
afternoon all
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 24 Comments: 8201
OMG! Well, as long as it's not coffee or beer!

from CNN.money.com

Kellogg is rationing its Eggo products due to flooding and equipment problems at two bakeries. The shortfall could last through mid-2010.

Better hoard your Eggos!

Grocery stores will be experiencing a shortage of the waffles until mid-2010 due to problems at two bakeries, a Kellogg's spokeswoman said on Wednesday.

Flooding at an Atlanta bakery during heavy rains in October forced Kellogg, which makes Eggo products, to shut down production temporarily, said company spokesman Kris Charles. Plus, equipment at Kellogg's largest waffle facility, based in Rossville, Tenn., needs extensive repairs.
Member Since: August 19, 2008 Posts: 32 Comments: 1918
lol @ Boss lady...the sherpa line never gets old, I cant catch Brown off guard...he is quick, but Madison...I can get him to spit milk through his nose
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting PcolaDan:


Kind of like when they put up a fence around a sand dune to help "save the dunes". Then proceeded bulldoze dunes around it to build condo's.


Yup! Like in Hoot where he talks about developers building resorts so all the "goober" tourists can come visit. Having lived in FL all my life I could definitely relate to that one, and the movie for that matter. There is still alot to enjoy but it's definitely dwindling. Thankfully there are many like minded conservationists down here who have managed to save quite a bit of natural habitat (Sanibel/Captiva and parts of the Everglades come to mind). JN Ding Darling and others pioneered the fight against manifest stupidity.
Member Since: August 28, 2006 Posts: 6 Comments: 2895
Quoting ConchHondros:


Lol...ask brown how many shades of red the clerk in Branson went when I told her I needed a sherpa, 3 bottes of coconut oil, and a leather thong with studs...AS we were getting our room...I am not skeered...but hey, to some that may be hot...(I) may be the cause of global warming...


LOL!! You kill me, Conch!

Member Since: July 10, 2008 Posts: 14 Comments: 412
210. oh, my! my mental eye is scorched! LOL
Member Since: September 14, 2007 Posts: 3 Comments: 3963
Quoting Floodman:


and on things too...you just like coffee...LOL


Well, shuh! You can keep the beer, I'll take the coffee. :)

Member Since: July 10, 2008 Posts: 14 Comments: 412
Quoting Floodman:


Conch, consider this your invitation...I will be taping to save the event for posterity...LOL

Where's that eye bleach?


Lol...ask brown how many shades of red the clerk in Branson went when I told her I needed a sherpa, 3 bottes of coconut oil, and a leather thong with studs...AS we were getting our room...I am not skeered...but hey, to some that may be hot...(I) may be the cause of global warming...
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting LongStrangeTrip:


I like coffee spilled in everything!


and on things too...you just like coffee...LOL
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting pearlandaggie:
200. yeah, if you like coffee spilled in your mother's milk! LMAO :)


I like coffee spilled in everything!
Member Since: July 10, 2008 Posts: 14 Comments: 412
Quoting ConchHondros:


No, I will wait for Flood to invite me to dinner...then maybe the jacket AND the speedo


Conch, consider this your invitation...I will be taping to save the event for posterity...LOL

Where's that eye bleach?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting pearlandaggie:
200. yeah, if you like coffee spilled in your mother's milk! LMAO :)


Hey, what's wrong with that, man? You get to stay awake longer to drink!
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
PcolaDan. 202. You hit it. Aaarggh again!!
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting pottery:
Yikes, Cot.
Sounds Dread, man.
See and have this straightened out before I get there on Dec. 10, my dear fellow.


Yeah, really. There's another system then coming a day after on Saturday, with strong winds again, 964mb on the latest chart. Dunno if it'll be weaker or stronger by then.

Never seems to end!
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting hurricanejunky:


Absolutely, who will pay for it? I see shows on Planet Green and hear many stories that feature those who are definitely re-foresting what they can, but who will pay for mass re-forestation? The above mentioned references are a drop in the bucket. The problem here in FL is they've built so damned much crap everywhere that we're running out of space to plant anything. I love the oxymoron created here where people visit and fall in love with "paradise" then proceed to bulldoze everything that made it paradise in the first place. UGH!


Kind of like when they put up a fence around a sand dune to help "save the dunes". Then proceeded bulldoze dunes around it to build condo's.
Member Since: August 22, 2008 Posts: 12 Comments: 6010
200. yeah, if you like coffee spilled in your mother's milk! LMAO :)
Member Since: September 14, 2007 Posts: 3 Comments: 3963
Quoting pearlandaggie:
147. oh, man...it's a small world, isn't it? i'm originally from Shiner...i tried to tell Floodman that the Shiner Black Lager sucked, but he would have none of it! LOL


Of course I wouldn't! That stuff is mother's milk! LOL
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I am outta here for now. Have a great evening all.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Yikes, Cot.
Sounds Dread, man.
See and have this straightened out before I get there on Dec. 10, my dear fellow.
Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 24024
Quoting LongStrangeTrip:


Ha ha...I'm sure he wouldn't! Far as I'm concerned, we're from God's country.


i would love to have some acreage out there, but that will probably never happen.
Member Since: September 14, 2007 Posts: 3 Comments: 3963
Quoting hurricanejunky:


Absolutely, who will pay for it? I see shows on Planet Green and hear many stories that feature those who are definitely re-foresting what they can, but who will pay for mass re-forestation? The above mentioned references are a drop in the bucket. The problem here in FL is they've built so damned much crap everywhere that we're running out of space to plant anything. I love the oxymoron created here where people visit and fall in love with "paradise" then proceed to bulldoze everything that made it paradise in the first place. UGH!

"They paved paradise and put up a parking lot"
Lord I feel old now.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
As someone mentioned British weather with the storm last week, it's just getting worse:

"South-west Scotland and north-west England are facing torrential downpours that will bring a month's rain in 36 hours, the BBC Weather Centre has said.

The service says Cumbria and Dumfries and Galloway are most at risk, and the Environment Agency has already put in place 45 flood warnings across the UK.

North Wales has also been hit by heavy rain and has already had some flooding.

The Met Office has issued severe weather warnings, saying some areas could get 50-100mm (2-4in) of rain.

In extreme cases there could be up to 200mm, such as on the Cumbrian Fells."

(Met Office actually has an extreme of 250mm, which is 10 inches in 'normal speak'. So that, within 36 hours. On top of already saturated ground, probably seen 4 inches or so in the last couple of weeks. UKMO has a rare 'Red' warning, the highest they go.)

Anyone want rain? Free of charge.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting txag91met:
This is the station in Lampasas, TX.
Link

Wow. That is a horrible station siting....but not all that unique either, unfortunately.

*leaving, really I am*
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
For Information--
here in Trinidad&Tobago the Forestry Division of the Agriculture Ministry, started a program about 10 yrs ago, to encourage land owners with old coffee, cocoa, citrus estates to replant with timber-trees. Caribbean Cedar, Mahogany and other trop. hardwoods .
The incentives include free site asessment, species recomendations, tax breaks on equipment and tools, payment for fire trace cutting, etc etc.
The scheme has been very successful, and the profit margins (although long-term) are huge.
Encouragement is given to short-term crops (cassava, banana, plantain, sweet potato etc) between the trees.
A couple thousand acres have been planted, in mixed timber trees.
EDIT-the seedlings are sold by the For.Div, at about .20 cents (US) each.
Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 24024
Quoting pottery:
Good post, Junky.
Deforestation is indeed a huge issue. We can, of course, solve the problem by planting vast areas of abandoned/un-used land. Who pays for that, is the prob.


Absolutely, who will pay for it? I see shows on Planet Green and hear many stories that feature those who are definitely re-foresting what they can, but who will pay for mass re-forestation? The above mentioned references are a drop in the bucket. The problem here in FL is they've built so damned much crap everywhere that we're running out of space to plant anything. I love the oxymoron created here where people visit and fall in love with "paradise" then proceed to bulldoze everything that made it paradise in the first place. UGH!
Member Since: August 28, 2006 Posts: 6 Comments: 2895
Quoting LongStrangeTrip:


Ha ha...I'm sure he wouldn't! Far as I'm concerned, we're from God's country. Fort Worth is a nice town, but I sure miss the Hill Country.

Well, Flood can have his Shiner, I'll take Abita over that any day...

Really leaving now....
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
Quoting ConchHondros:


No, I will wait for Flood to invite me to dinner...then maybe the jacket AND the speedo


LOL LOL LOL!!!
Member Since: July 10, 2008 Posts: 14 Comments: 412
Quoting nrtiwlnvragn:


These graphs from this website?

Exactly the ones I was looking for! Thank you!
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Good post, Junky.
Deforestation is indeed a huge issue. We can, of course, solve the problem by planting vast areas of abandoned/un-used land. Who pays for that, is the prob.
Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 24024
Quoting pearlandaggie:
147. oh, man...it's a small world, isn't it? i'm originally from Shiner...i tried to tell Floodman that the Shiner Black Lager sucked, but he would have none of it! LOL


Ha ha...I'm sure he wouldn't! Far as I'm concerned, we're from God's country. Fort Worth is a nice town, but I sure miss the Hill Country.
Member Since: July 10, 2008 Posts: 14 Comments: 412
Quoting jeffs713:
Thinking about El Nino... Does anyone have a link to the page that has the different SST anomaly graphs for each el nino region? (thinking specifially of the one that has orange for el nino anomalies, and blue for la nina)


These graphs from this website?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting gordydunnot:
Please even if you forget that we have cut about half the forest down in the world which sequester carbon turning that into co2 emissions,to actually argue about whether we are putting more co2 in the air than ever before is just ludicrous and tells you why we are in so much peril over the short time. People have always been self interested and the ones who are not, usually end up dead. The problem today is to many people on the planet with to many conflicting self interest. At some point we will end up with a bigger war over limited resources possible taking care of a lot of our problems, although it wont be pretty.


Definitely! Deforestation could possibly be the worst culprit in this. Or at least one of them. These ruthless de-foresters don't realize what they're doing. C02 emissions might not be nearly as big of a concern if we weren't severely reducing the ability to scrub the atmosphere of it daily. Deforestation is just REALLY exacerbating an already alarming situation. I like the message from Klaatu in The Day The Earth Stood Still: "not until faced with extinction will you change."
(paraphrased)
Member Since: August 28, 2006 Posts: 6 Comments: 2895

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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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