Record -50°F confirmed for Maine; is this inconsistent with global warming?

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 1:41 PM GMT on February 13, 2009

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The lowest temperature ever recorded in the state of Maine, a -50°F reading taken on January 16, has been confirmed as real, according to a press release issued by the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) and National Weather Service this week. The new record occurred at 7:15 a.m. Jan. 16 at a remote river gauge in Big Black River (see USGS image at right), about four miles from the Canadian border. It ties the record set in 1933 for New England's lowest temperature, set at Bloomfield, Vermont. The old Maine record was -48°F, set in 1925 at Van Buren. All-time state records are difficult to break. The last time a state record low was set occurred January 5, 1999, when Congerville, Illinois recorded -36°F. Only one state record high temperature has been set in the past the decade--the 120°F temperature measured in Usta, South Dakota on July 15, 2006.

All-time record lows are inconsistent with global warming, right?
An impressive cold wave hit the northern and eastern portions of the U.S. January 11-18, with 17 states reporting record daily lows. In addition to the coldest temperature ever measured in Maine, one station, Waterloo, Iowa, tied its 1962 record for all-time coldest temperature, when the mercury hit -34°F on January 16. If global warming is occurring, we should not expect to see very many all-time city or state records being set. The nation's January-December average temperature has increased at a rate of 0.12°F per decade since 1895, and at a faster rate of 0.41°F per decade during the last 50 years. This 2°F rise in temperature has undoubtedly allowed more high temperature than low temperature records to be broken. However, this is a low enough amount of warming that there should still be a few cold temperature records being set, since the weather is so highly variable.

The statistics support this position. The Waterloo, Iowa mark was only the second time this decade that an all-time record cold temperature has been set at a major U.S. city. The cities I consider are the 303 cities author Chris Burt tracks in his excellent Extreme Weather book. The cites chosen were selected based primarily on their length of weather records (all the records go back to at least 1948, with most going back to the 1800s), and include all the largest cities in the U.S. The only other all-time coldest temperature record set at these cities this decade was the -44°F recorded in Grand Forks, North Dakota on 1/30/2004. By contrast, 49 all-time high temperature marks have been set this decade (Figure 1).

Perhaps a better judge of the impact of global warming on extreme temperatures, though, is to look at record warmest and coldest months. Month-long records are more reflective of the climate than an extreme event lasting just a few days. No all-time coldest month records were at any U.S. cities during January 2009, and it was not even close. Despite the cold blast of Jan. 11-18, the month of January finished out above average in temperature for the lower 48 states. So far this decade, no U.S. major city has set an all-time coldest month record. The last time a coldest month record was set occurred in January, 1994 when Caribou Maine and Bayfield, Wisconsin recorded their coldest month. By contrast, there have been 61 all-time warmest month records set in those same 303 cities between 2000 and 2008 (Figure 1). The summer of 2007 alone saw 42 all-time high (or warmest month ever) records. Just one record was set in the summer of 2008.


Figure 1. Minimum and maximum temperatures records for the U.S. for 303 major stations. The image has been updated through January 2009 to include the one record low set that month. The original version of this image was for 2007, and I modified it to update it for four changes made in the 2008 data. The numbers for the decade of the 2000s are correct, but there are four (out of 606) records that need to be subtracted off some of the earlier decades. Note the the 1930s were the most extreme decade for total number of records set, but the 1920s were the least extreme. U.S. weather has a high degree of variability from decade to decade. Image credit: Chris Burt, Extreme Weather.

Are the pattern of U.S. temperature records due to the Urban Heat Island effect?
There have been 110 all-time high temperature or all-time warmest month records set at the 303 major U.S. cities this decade, and only two such low temperature records set. Is this disparity due to global warming, or the Urban Heat Island effect? The Urban Heat Island (UHI) effect occurs when development of former natural areas into pavement and buildings allows more heat to be trapped in cities, particularly at night. During the day, the UHI effect often leads to a slight cooling, since it can increase the amount of turbulence, allowing cooler air to get mixed down to the surface. For example, Moreno-Garcia (1994) found that Barcelona, Spain was 0.2°C cooler for daily maxima and 2.9°C warmer for minima than a nearby rural station.

However, temperature records are typically taken in parks and airports removed from the main heat-trapping areas of cities, and are not as strongly affected as one might expect. There are several reasons for this. One is that when tall buildings are present, they tend to block the view to the sky, meaning that not as much heat can escape upwards. In addition, the presence of moist vegetation keeps the atmosphere moister in park-like areas (which include the grassy fields near airports where temperature measurements are taken). This extra moisture helps cool the atmosphere on a local scale of tens of meters, due to latent heat effects (the energy required to convert liquid water to water vapor). Peterson (2003) found that "Contrary to generally accepted wisdom, no statistically significant impact of urbanization could be found in annual temperatures." The study used satellite-based night-light detection to identify urban areas. Recent research by Spronken-Smith and Oke (1998) concluded that there was a marked park cool island effect within the Urban Heat Island. They found that parks in typical cities in the U.S. have temperatures 1 - 2°C cooler than the surrounding city--and sometimes more than 5°C cooler. While the Urban Heat Island effect probably has contributed to some of the reduction in record low temperatures in the U.S. in the past decade, research by Parker (2004, 2006) and Peterson (2003) theorizes that Urban Heat Island effect is a factor ten or more less important than rising temperatures due to global warming.

Is the Urban Heat Island effect partially responsible for global warming?
Global warming is affecting the entire Earth, including rural areas far from cities, and the 70% of the world covered by ocean. Thus, the Urban Heat Island effect--if not corrected for--can cause only a small impact on the global temperature figures. Since the Urban Heat Island is corrected for, the impact on the observed global warming signal should be negligible. For instance, NASA uses satellite-derived night light observations to classify stations as rural and urban and corrects the urban stations so that they match the trends from the rural stations before gridding the data. Other techniques (such as correcting for population growth) have also been used. Despite these corrections, and the fact that the Urban Heat Island effect impacts only a relatively small portion of the globe, global warming skeptics have persistently used the Urban Heat Island effect to attack the validity of global warming. There are no published peer-reviewed scientific studies that support these attacks.

References
Parker, D.E., 2004, "Large-Scale Warming is not Urban", Nature 432, 290, doi:10.1038/432290a, 2004.

Parker, D.E., 2006, "A Demonstration that Large-Scale Warming is not Urban", J. Climate 19, pp2882-2986, 2006.

Peterson, T.C., "Assessment of urban versus rural in situ surface temperatures in the contiguous United States: No difference found", Journal of Climate, 16, 2941-2959, 2003.

Spronken-Smith, R. A., and T. R. Oke, 1998: "The thermal regime of urban parks in two cities with different summer climates. Int. J. Remote Sens., 19, 20852104.

The surface temperature record and the urban heat island, realclimate.org post, 2004.

My next post will be sometime Tue-Thu.

Jeff Masters

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Redoubt Volcano Latest Observations
2009-02-16 13:25:29

Unrest at Redoubt Volcano continues. No eruption has occurred. Volcanic tremor with variable amplitudes is ongoing. Beginning at about 9:00 AM AKST today, the tremor amplitude increased and remains elevated, though still below the highest levels seen during the current period of unrest.

Web camera images are obscured by snowy conditions.
Member Since: September 2, 2007 Posts: 177 Comments: 20430
Check Redoubt seismic graphs - AkSnowLvr Blog
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Good evening everyone.....!!

"I don't think the human effect is significant compared to the natural effect," said Schmitt, who is among 70 skeptics scheduled to speak next month at the International Conference on Climate Change in New York.

Schmitt contends that scientists "are being intimidated" if they disagree with the idea that burning fossil fuels has increased carbon dioxide levels, temperatures and sea levels.

"They've seen too many of their colleagues lose grant funding when they haven't gone along with the so-called political consensus that we're in a human-caused global warming," Schmitt said.


Orca sounds like your having Global Warming conditions........LOL
Member Since: September 2, 2007 Posts: 177 Comments: 20430
Quoting theshepherd:
577 MP
That's a typical case in point for the Press for missleading headlines:
He did not say he didn't believe man caused global warming. He said he didn't think our role was "significant compared to natural".

Same as "No Weapons of Mass Destrucuion"
versus "No Weapons of Mass Destruction Found".

The slant is slight, but the slant "is" there and has a completely different meaning.


He said, "I don't think the human effect is significant compared to the natural effect,"

And your point is?

Causing and having an effect are not nearly the same.

Just curious.

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Quoting Skyepony:
wow~ the data on the sea extent ice graph I left earlier has totally changed, it had looked like it had near free fallen earlier for the last 5 days.. well least it didn't all just tip..


Sheesh. Let's hope they always review their numbers, not just when they really look odd.
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584. HadesGodWyvern (Mod)
Joint Typhoon Warning Center

Tropical Cyclone Formation Alert #2 (2130z 16FEB)
==========================================
The area of convection (93P/10F) located at 20.0S 165.9E or 150 NM northwest of Noumea, New Caledonia. Animated infrared satellite imagery indicates a well defined low level circulation center that has seen a significant increase in banding convection developing towards the center as indicated by a 1720x AMSU-B Pass. The low level circulation center has remained well defined over the past 6 hours but moderate vertical wind shear has allowed the low level circulation center to remain partially exposed with majority of convection in the southern and southeastern periphery but improving. The upper level environment has remained favorable with an anticyclone over the low level circulation center and enhanced poleward outflow caused by a shift in the upper level trough/low northwest of the system. Animated water vapor imagery reflects this improvement with expanding poleward outflow evident over the southern semi-circle. Sea surface temperature is also favorable for further development.

Maximum sustained winds: 25-30 knots
Minimal central pressure: 1000 MB

THE POTENTIAL FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF A SIGNIFICANT TROPICAL CYCLONE WITHIN THE NEXT 24 HOURS REMAINS GOOD.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
583. HadesGodWyvern (Mod)
Fiji Meteorological Services
Tropical Disturbance Advisory Number FOUR
TROPICAL DEPRESSION TEN-F
6:00 AM FST February 17 2009
==================================

Special Weather Advisory - Vanuatu

At 18:00 PM UTC, Tropical Depression Ten-F (1000 hPa) located at 19.8S 165.8E has 10 minute sustained winds of 30 to 40 knots in the sector 30 to 120 NM of the center in the northwest quadrant and in the sector 30 to 180 NM of the center in the southeast quadrant. The depression is reported as moving west-southwest at 11 knots. Position POOR based on multispectral/enhanced infrared radar imagery with animation and peripheral surface observations.

TEN-F lies along the northwestern periphery of an upper anticyclonic circulation. Outflow remains good to the east and south but restricted elsewhere.

Dvorak Analysis based on a wrap on 0.30 on LOG10 Spiral yields DT=2.0, MET=PT=1.5. FT based on MET

Thus T1.5/2.0/S0.0/ 24 HRS

An upper short wave trough is currently moving over the system but increasing shear associated with a long wave trough moving off Australia is expected to inhibit development. As TD TEN-F moves closer to New Caledonia, land interaction is expected to weaken the system further. Ten-F is being steered southwest by an upper level ridge to the southeast. Sea surface temperatures is around 28C. Global models agree on a southwest movement with no intensification.

POTENTIAL FOR 10F TO DEVELOP INTO A TROPICAL CYCLONE IN THE NEXT 24 HOURS IS LOW.

  • THIS IS THE FINAL TROPICAL DISTURBANCE ADVISORY ON TD10F UNLESS IT RE-DEVELOPS.
  • Member Since: Posts: Comments:
    577 MP
    That's a typical case in point for the Press for missleading headlines:
    He did not say he didn't believe man caused global warming. He said he didn't think our role was "significant compared to natural".

    Same as "No Weapons of Mass Destrucuion"
    versus "No Weapons of Mass Destruction Found".

    The slant is slight, but the slant "is" there and has a completely different meaning.
    Member Since: September 11, 2008 Posts: 9 Comments: 10030


    here is latest image orca
    Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 163 Comments: 52248
    Quoting KEHCharleston:
    Sheesh,
    BucknSC has a valid point about using data from 100 years of weather history and ignoring the other however many zillion years.
    Have that stir stick in your hot little hands, do ya?


    not really.. we can go back many thousands with ice and fossil deposits on the ocean floor.
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    They also forget to add that Jack Schmitt is a Geologist.
    Member Since: Posts: Comments:
    578. Skyepony (Mod)
    Here's a saved version of the graph I posted earlier, the updated (what you now see) just removed past where the fall off began. Perhaps they are reviewing data..
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    Ex-Astronaut: Global Warming Is Bunk

    Monday, February 16, 2009
    Associated Press

    SANTA FE, N.M. %u2014 Former astronaut Harrison Schmitt, who walked on the moon and once served New Mexico in the U.S. Senate, doesn't believe that humans are causing global warming.



    "I don't think the human effect is significant compared to the natural effect," said Schmitt, who is among 70 skeptics scheduled to speak next month at the International Conference on Climate Change in New York.

    Schmitt contends that scientists "are being intimidated" if they disagree with the idea that burning fossil fuels has increased carbon dioxide levels, temperatures and sea levels.

    "They've seen too many of their colleagues lose grant funding when they haven't gone along with the so-called political consensus that we're in a human-caused global warming," Schmitt said.


    Dan Williams, publisher with the Chicago-based Heartland Institute, which is hosting the climate change conference, said he invited Schmitt after reading about his resignation from The Planetary Society, a nonprofit dedicated to space exploration.

    Schmitt resigned after the group blamed global warming on human activity.

    In his resignation letter, the 74-year-old geologist argued that the "global warming scare is being used as a political tool to increase government control over American lives, incomes and decision-making."

    Williams said Heartland is skeptical about the crisis that people are proclaiming in global warming.

    "Not that the planet hasn't warmed. We know it has or we'd all still be in the Ice Age," he said. "But it has not reached a crisis proportion and, even among us skeptics, there's disagreement about how much man has been responsible for that warming."

    Schmitt said historical documents indicate average temperatures have risen by 1 degree per century since around 1400 A.D., and the rise in carbon dioxide is because of the temperature rise.

    Schmitt also said geological evidence indicates changes in sea level have been going on for thousands of years. He said smaller changes are related to changes in the elevation of land masses %u2014 for example, the Great Lakes are rising because the earth's crust is rebounding from being depressed by glaciers.

    Schmitt, who grew up in Silver City and now lives in Albuquerque, has a science degree from the California Institute of Technology. He also studied geology at the University of Oslo in Norway and took a doctorate in geology from Harvard University in 1964.

    In 1972, he was one of the last men to walk on the moon as part of the Apollo 17 mission.

    Schmitt said he's heartened that the upcoming conference is made up of scientists who haven't been manipulated by politics.

    Of the global warming debate, he said: "It's one of the few times you've seen a sizable portion of scientists who ought to be objective take a political position and it's coloring their objectivity."
    Member Since: Posts: Comments:
    576. Skyepony (Mod)
    hhmmm~ actually it looks like someone removed the last 5 days.. before the line stretched over Feb.
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    WTF... its 6 C outside... and SNOWING????
    Member Since: October 1, 2007 Posts: 81 Comments: 26493
    Skye,

    Even going by where the graph flat lines the ice extent growth is still on par with the previous 7 years in terms of growth between the 3rd week of January and current time.


    In Jan of 2006 the sea ice growth really flat lined between 1/5/06 and 1/22/06 when the total ice growth between those two dates only amounted to ~70,000 sq.km. That's quite astonishing.
    Member Since: Posts: Comments:
    573. Skyepony (Mod)
    wow~ the data on the sea extent ice graph I left earlier has totally changed, it had looked like it had near free fallen earlier for the last 5 days.. well least it didn't all just tip..
    Member Since: Posts: Comments:
    572. Skyepony (Mod)
    sullivian~ it's on the graph I left earlier, growth flatlines mid to 3rd week in January at the beginning of the vortex split but like you pointed out the rest of Jan had huge gain. The flatline in growth point must be what they are refuring too.
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    its something we have to wait and see how it turns out and how fast the spring warms
    Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 163 Comments: 52248
    KOTG,

    That all depends on wind/temps/cloud cover in the arctic this upcoming spring/summer. It is likely that sea ice extent will approach the record max to min melt seen last season.
    Member Since: Posts: Comments:
    Quoting sullivanweather:
    I keep seeing posts about how arctic sea ice 'flatlined' in January. Let's look at the data (from AMSR-E)

    January ice extent growth

    2009 - 1,384,375 sq.km
    2008 - 1,363,125 sq.km (-21,250 sq.km)
    2007 - 1,097,656 sq.km (-286,719 sq.km)
    2006 - 727,656 sq.km (-656,719 sq.km)
    2005 - 976,637 sq.km (-407,738 sq.km)
    2004 - 794,832 sq.km (-589,543 sq.km)
    2003 - 1,234,175 sq.km (-150,200 sq.km)


    Of the last 7 years this January had the greatest gain in sea-ice extent.
    09 will see its greatest loss its all first year ice that once melting is trigger it will go fast very fast first year ice is slop or slush ice
    Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 163 Comments: 52248
    I keep seeing posts about how arctic sea ice 'flatlined' in January. Let's look at the data (from AMSR-E)

    January ice extent growth

    2009 - 1,384,375 sq.km
    2008 - 1,363,125 sq.km (-21,250 sq.km)
    2007 - 1,097,656 sq.km (-286,719 sq.km)
    2006 - 727,656 sq.km (-656,719 sq.km)
    2005 - 976,637 sq.km (-407,738 sq.km)
    2004 - 794,832 sq.km (-589,543 sq.km)
    2003 - 1,234,175 sq.km (-150,200 sq.km)


    Of the last 7 years this January had the greatest gain in sea-ice extent.
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    567. Skyepony (Mod)

    Nice to see a little ran on the SE side of Australia too, but the MJO isn't helping them none.
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    566. Skyepony (Mod)
    atmo~ NASA has some great data on the vortex split. You can see the heat break it in 2, after it rolled across the artic. That's a study in itself. Pretty unprecidented from what I've gathered, atleast the statophere temp changes.. & yeah the ice extent reaction..Should spur some research~ might make one of these kids a good paper too.
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    Complete Blog Refresh
    Mirror Site
    New Section includes Mt Redoubt
    I am now using Google Earth Version 5



    I am also trying something new with these link
    Display Current
    Member Since: October 1, 2007 Posts: 81 Comments: 26493
    564. Skyepony (Mod)
    I don't know about aproaching biblical.. 2006-7 had a similiar dip when it began it's melting for the year.. most likely it will level more out tomarrow, usually don't see a quick change happen for much longer than this. If that's the case we just start melting a month before we did our minimum year.. Something to watch.

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    I was concerned the sea ice extent would flat line when the polar vortex split & went away too soon & it did but I didn't expect this.... I hope someone forgot to smooth data or something..

    Likewise...all of the above. Maybe this will result in a terrific sensitivity study of ice growth versus [fill in effect of polar vortex split]
    Member Since: Posts: Comments:
    Mother Nature will end up doing whatever she feels like; all we can really do is watch it happening (and speculate, analyze, hypothecize, banter, argue, etc,) as to what the future may bring...Lol
    Member Since: Posts: Comments:
    oh great, no drama this morning, just a lot of rain in Calif, and then along comes some polar ice cap melting approaching biblical proportionalities ...
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    patrap - awesome pic!




    I know i don't miss that cold spell we recently had! We had record cold temps as well. We beat the all time record low in our city few weeks ago with this cold spell!

    spring can't come soon enough!



















    #1 Website for Tornado & Weather links, All on one site!

    www.tornadolinks.com

    WWW.TORNADOLINKS.COM

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    559. Skyepony (Mod)
    I was concerned the sea ice extent would flat line when the polar vortex split & went away too soon & it did but I didn't expect this.... I hope someone forgot to smooth data or something..

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    555. BucknSC
    Yikes!
    Gulf states get more recent attention, because of the loss of life and the damage that has ravaged the coast in the last few years. From which they have yet to recover.

    We received enough attention after Hugo, - do not want any more.
    Floyd was a flooding disaster for NC. The pig carcasses floating on the river was awful. But it was no where near being a Katrina or an Ike.
    Member Since: August 19, 2008 Posts: 6 Comments: 2490
    Quoting Ossqss:
    part 2

    Comparing the mass and luminosity of the Sun to the multitudes of other stars, it appears that the solar system cannot be much older than those rocks. Ca-Al-rich inclusions (inclusions rich in calcium and aluminium) – the oldest known solid constituents within meteorites that are formed within the solar system – are 4.567 billion years old,[7][8] giving an age for the solar system and an upper limit for the age of Earth. It is hypothesised that the accretion of Earth began soon after the formation of the Ca-Al-rich inclusions and the meteorites.


    Artist rendering of Sol's accretion disk.


    Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 414 Comments: 125560
    i could'nt agree more pat well said
    Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 163 Comments: 52248
    And 1 more thing about this global warming deal, and more hurricanes. wasnt the years 1900-1910 some of our worse years? and why does the gulf states get more attention? Anyone remember hurricane floyed? It flooded eastern NC months after it was gone. I watch weather alot and can recall 3 major hurricanes in the atlantic 1 beind the other in the early 90s all 3 heading to SC and NC 2 moved back out to sea, the last one hit the outer banks
    seems were are not having more hurricanes, the tracks are changing.

    Member Since: Posts: Comments:
    Seems GW is a rather tender subject for some

    You'll survive it.

    Its a Phd's Blog,.. entries,not doctrine on the subject.

    The web is a BIG place,you can find equal footing here and opposing views as well...form just having a comment section


    Were lucky to have Dr. Masters post on the matter.
    In a concise manner with Links to the Studies he refers too.

    Were also fortunate to Have Ricky Roods Climate Change Blog as well. You can always find interesting info and banter there as well

    Most scientist wouldnt dream nor dare to do what happens here.


    So I thank the Good Dr. Masters for what he does,and allows us to do as a whole.

    Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 414 Comments: 125560


    lots of rain for CA. possible severe treat mainly hail / heavy rain
    Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 163 Comments: 52248
    Quoting Orcasystems:


    I just read somewhere thats its presidents Day? if that means you guys are havinga long weekend.. I sure hope Doc changes the blog.. this one is going a bit stir crazy.

    At least if The Shep says "I wanna play too.:)" its going to get very interesting.


    I second that notion.

    And preferably something non-GW related... (I know, a tall order?) especially since the argument's sophistication now seems to boil down to the following...

    If scientist says something against GW, he isn't a real scientist.

    If scientist says something for GW, he's taking backhanders and/or being 'unduly' influenced by the powers that be.

    So convincing!
    Member Since: Posts: Comments:
    part 2

    Comparing the mass and luminosity of the Sun to the multitudes of other stars, it appears that the solar system cannot be much older than those rocks. Ca-Al-rich inclusions (inclusions rich in calcium and aluminium) – the oldest known solid constituents within meteorites that are formed within the solar system – are 4.567 billion years old,[7][8] giving an age for the solar system and an upper limit for the age of Earth. It is hypothesised that the accretion of Earth began soon after the formation of the Ca-Al-rich inclusions and the meteorites.
    Member Since: Posts: Comments:
    Wiki stuff --

    Following the scientific revolution and the development of radiometric age dating, measurements of lead in uranium-rich minerals showed that some were in excess of a billion years old.[3] The oldest such minerals analysed to date – small crystals of zircon from the Jack Hills of Western Australia – are at least 4.404 billion years old.
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    And btw shepherd, the 2 million was a typo on my 1st post. should have been 2 around billion
    sue me LOL
    Member Since: Posts: Comments:
    Thanks Dr. M; I'm no scientist, and hate to weigh in on the global warming debate when I am not certain who is right, but my "layman" observation, over the years and living in Florida all of my life, is that our winters seem to be less cold (a piece of cake compared to the Northern and Central US)than they were when I was a kid and what I have noticed the most (now that I have lived in North Florida for everal years) is that "Fall" and "Spring" appear definately shorter with not much of a transition.......Local case in point?...In Tallahassee, we have our Annual Springtime Tallahassee festival (held for years in April) when the Azalea's bloom has been at it's best historically, and for the past few years, they have bloomed much earlier (in late February-March) and are usually "gone" by the time of the Festival....Temps have been very moderate the past several weeks and most of my Azaleas in my yard are already sprounting buds as of this past week (and pollen is driving my Wife crazy already).............I would expect, as mentioned by Dr. M., that part of the GW issue, as specified in many scientific reports over recent years, is that temperature extremes (harsh winters and harsh summers with little Fall and Spring transition in-between) will probably be the norm in coming years as "general" climate patterns change. Whether due to geunine GW, or other global climactic impacts, including natural cycles vs. man-made causes, is beyond my pay grade...........WW
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    Quoting BucknSC:
    William Smith's nephew and student, John Phillips, later calculated by such means that Earth was about 96 million years old.

    The Sun is abut 4.5 billion years old now. It is about 300 degrees hotter and abput 6% greater in radius than when it was first born. ...
    who will ever know skippy LOL



    Google. carbon dating and fossels
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    Quoting Patrap:
    er,,the Plant Earth is around 4.5 Billion years old there Skippy..Link


    I don't know why I even TRIED to read that. SO FAR OVER MY HEAD.. But now I think I know what a YOUNG-EARTHER is (at first I thought it was just like a kid or even like a punk) and I also have a raging head ache. I guess that is what happens when you overstimulate an averge brain!! Kinda like when I try to do crunches and hurt for a week!

    But thanks guess my head has had it's workout for the week!
    Member Since: Posts: Comments:
    Sheesh,
    BucknSC has a valid point about using data from 100 years of weather history and ignoring the other however many zillion years.
    Have that stir stick in your hot little hands, do ya?
    Member Since: August 19, 2008 Posts: 6 Comments: 2490
    Quoting BucknSC:
    Ok 2 billion 4 billion 96 million 100 thousand, the point is .....I see just over a 100 years of records.
    Its hard to judge earth on 100 years.. and say humans are harming this plantet. did we cause the ice age? did we cause the flood? some scientist say at 1 point the earth had no water. water was supplied by geysers. was it humans that cause all of this to happen?

    Now your pal can call me skippy and what other names he wants.
    Most smart people cant use common sense.

    Just trying to learn more myself.
    MichaelSTL's blog has a lot of information on the subject. He would be more then happy to share comments with you. Thanks for you posts. LOL
    Member Since: September 11, 2008 Posts: 9 Comments: 10030
    Quoting paratomic:
    Your made your point in a roundabout way. Gosh, we're pretty small :0



    Yupp..but the Planetary Ego is "Vary" Big
    Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 414 Comments: 125560
    Quoting Patrap:
    Well..if ya study just a lil astronomy.

    One wouldnt have to Google anything about Yellow Main Sequence Stars.

    Ya still following..?

    oooh..pictures too...!




    LOL..
    Your made your point in a roundabout way. Gosh, we're pretty small :0
    Member Since: Posts: Comments:
    Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
    hey buck and sometimes you can be so smart your stupid


    GASP!! thats from the Centre of the Universe... and we all know he is older then dirt.
    Member Since: October 1, 2007 Posts: 81 Comments: 26493






    Be Prepared Link

    "Preventing the loss of life and minimizing the damage to property from hurricanes are responsibilities that are shared by all."

    Hurricane Season: Are You Prepared?Throughout this Web site, information has been provided regarding actions that you can take based on specific hurricane hazards. The most important thing that you can do is to be informed and prepared. Disaster prevention includes both being prepared as well as reducing damages
    Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 414 Comments: 125560
    hey buck and sometimes you can be so smart your stupid
    Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 163 Comments: 52248

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    About JeffMasters

    Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.