Geoengineering: a bad idea whose time may come

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 3:46 PM GMT on December 19, 2008

Share this Blog
4
+

Yesterday, at the annual meeting of the American Geophysical Union (AGU), climate change scientists discussed the risks and benefits of deliberately altering Earth's climate through "geoengineering". One measure of the concern scientists have about Earth's climate could be gauged by the standing-room only crowd of 200 that packed the presentation room. The eleven speakers at the session laid out some radical and dangerous ideas for deliberately altering Earth's climate. They uniformly cautioned that the uncertainties and dangers of implementing any of these schemes was high, but that geoengineering may be necessary if efforts to control greenhouse gases fail and the climate begins to undergo rapid and destructive changes.

David Keith presented the results of a week-long workshop held earlier this year that brought together ten of the world's experts on geoengineering. He emphasized that even if we stopped emitting CO2 today, the possibility of dangerous climate change capable of causing a "climate emergency" may still be higher than 1%, thanks to the tremendous inertia of the heat stored in the oceans. Of course, we're not going to stop emitting CO2 today. Dealing with a future climate emergency is technically feasible, if we inject large quantities of sulfur into the tropical stratosphere via aircraft, artillery, or tethered balloons with hoses. Sulfur injection into the stratosphere is considered to be the leading candidate for geoengineering, since nature has done this many times via volcanic eruptions, and we have some idea of what to expect. As I reported in a blog post earlier this year, the idea is being championed by Nobel prize-winning atmospheric chemist Paul Crutzen.

One problem with injecting sulfur into the stratosphere is that it tends to settle back to the surface in about ten months. A. V. Eliseev explained that in order to keep global temperatures under control in a world with ever-increasing CO2 emissions, we would have to inject an ever increasing amount of sulfur into the atmosphere. His computer model results showed that if a funding lapse occurred in, say, the year 2075, the atmosphere would rapidly warm by 5-9°F (3-5°C) over most of North America, Europe, and Asia, within a decade of cessation of the geoengineering efforts. The resulting shock to ecosystems would be extremely dangerous to civilization.

Richard Turco of UCLA estimated that injecting enough sulfur in the stratosphere to properly geoengineer the climate would require 3000 aircraft sorties per day, and cost $50-$100 billion per year. Model results he presented showed a large amount of uncertainty as to what might happen, and he cautioned that there was "no guarantee of success, and failure would be catastrophic".

A. Robrock of Rutgers disagreed with Dr. Turco, and estimated that the cost of injecting the required amount of sulfur into the stratosphere would by less that $5 billion per year, provided the U.S. military would let scientists use 167 of the existing fleet of 522 F15C Eagle jets to do the job. After all, he reasoned, why wouldn't the military want to use their aircraft to confront our enemy (global warming?) High-altitude fighter jets would be required to do the job, since ordinary jetliners cannot fly high enough to penetrate into the stratosphere. He cautioned that such a fleet of aircraft would have to fly three missions per day, and their exhaust gases would probably cause significant destruction of Earth's protective ozone layer. Furthermore, modeling studies show that we don't know what size particles to make, where to put the sulfur, and what uneven effects the efforts might have on Earth's climate. He concluded, "there are many reasons not to do geoengineering".

A more ecological approach to geoengineering was presented by Phil Rasch of Pacific Northwest National Laboratory, and by Jim Haywood of Britain's Met Office Hadley Center. They proposed building a fleet of wind-powered ships known as Fletter vessels (Figure 1) that would spray large amounts of sea salt into the air in regions where there are existing stratocumulus clouds. The sea salt would act as nuclei around which moisture could condense, making the clouds more reflective. A fleet of approximately 66 of these vessels would be required to seed the clouds over 30% of the globe, to balance a doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide. However, they cautioned that while this solution would be relatively cheap, the technology to implement this scheme would be difficult. Furthermore, studies performed with climate models showed that the resulting climate shift would not be uniform, and many areas would experience drought. In particular, Dr. Haywood showed the possibility of severe drought in the Amazon rain forest and in the Southwest U.S.


Figure 1. A conceptual picture of Flettner spray vessel with Thom fences. These wind-driven vessels have vertical spinning cylinders that use the Magnus effect to produce forces perpendicular to the wind direction. Anton Flettner built a ship using this technology that crossed the Atlantic in 1926. The proposed geoengineering Flettner vessels would sail over ocean regions covered with stratocumulus clouds and make the existing clouds whiter by spraying small salt particles into the air. Image is copyright J. MacNeill 2006. For more information on these vessels, see Salter at al., 2008, "Sea-going hardware for the cloud albedo method of reversing global warming", Philosophical Transactions of The Royal Society A, 366, Number 1882, pp3989-4006, 13 November 2008.

Katharine Ricke of Carnagie Mellon University cautioned that the foreign policy community has virtually no awareness of geoengineering issues, and would be totally unprepared for the possibility of some country deciding to unilaterally attempt a geoengineering program on their own. She suggested that an effort needs to be made to promote international agreements on geoengineering, perhaps including binding treaties.

Jeff Masters

Reader Comments

Comments will take a few seconds to appear.

Post Your Comments

Please sign in to post comments.

or Join

Not only will you be able to leave comments on this blog, but you'll also have the ability to upload and share your photos in our Wunder Photos section.

Display: 0, 50, 100, 200 Sort: Newest First - Order Posted

Viewing: 83 - 33

Page: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10Blog Index

Quoting BtnTx:
It is becoming very obvious that the only way to solve this Global Warming problem is that we have the UN set up a lottery to enact MASSIVE SUICIDE/DEATH OF 95% OF HUMANS. Problem Solved
UN???...You first.
Member Since: September 11, 2008 Posts: 9 Comments: 10077
Afternoon from the snow suburbs of Boston
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting NRAamy:
Quoting tornadofan:
I think we need another plaque. That would solve several problems.



a plaque? did you mean plague? 'cause I really don't see what good a plaque is gonna do....


Oh, that was my original post... yeah, typo. Mentioned it a few posts back. LOL. I did mean a plague obviously, or maybe not so obvious for some.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting barryweather:
# 76 Then we would have to eat them or the corpses would further exacerbate the warming.


Exacerbate... what a great word.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting tornadofan:
I think we need another plaque. That would solve several problems.



a plaque? did you mean plague? 'cause I really don't see what good a plaque is gonna do....
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
# 76 Then we would have to eat them or the corpses would further exacerbate the warming.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting tornadofan:
I think we need another plaque. That would solve several problems.

Hmmm... Glass half empty type?
Nope, it's always half full...0/2 ? Can't have zero in the numerator, non operation...LOL
Member Since: September 11, 2008 Posts: 9 Comments: 10077
It is becoming very obvious that the only way to solve this Global Warming problem is that we have the UN set up a lottery to enact MASSIVE SUICIDE/DEATH OF 95% OF HUMANS. Problem Solved
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
WOW, Dr Masters, very interesting.

Just my "Flat Earth" mindset that says "NO" to Geoengineering....especially until it becomes absolutely necessary. which I hope will never happen and I really don't think it will.

The Earth goes thru cycles of cooling and warming periods. Let's not do anything to permanently damage Mother Earth. Except to keep her clean and like Skye said, let's plant some appropriate trees.. try using nature for nature first...

I'll bet if you ask all these people who are having all these ice storms and record cold this winter and winter is not even offically here yet... if you ask them if they wanted us to make the planet even colder they would scream at you.

A tropical or subtropical environment is not too bad folks.. I live in one.


(here come the GW warming people to get me..gotta run..)
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
# 69 That reminds me of this Link
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
I'm asking Santa for some...WAVES - NEXT BUMP...maybe Monday -- it'll be a quickie -- but if we behave another blast around Christmas - monday 1-2 ft North Swell.....SO JUST BEHAVE
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
I guess you could say that... although I did just notice my typo... lol.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
I think we need another plaque. That would solve several problems.

Hmmm... Glass half empty type?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Post 68 was in response to post 66. Agreed Shepherd. I have two children myself and cry when I think about her story.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
The Cause of Cold Weather Is Global Warming?


Thursday, December 18, 2008

By Neil Cavuto



You probably heard the news that it snowed in Las Vegas.

Yep, Sin City becoming slush city.

Hell truly has frozen over.

Weird thing is, what's happening in Vegas isn't staying in Vegas.

Cold weather and nasty storms already the norm. And it isn't technically even winter yet.

First time southern Nevada's seen anything like this in 30 years.

First time southern California's been looking at 30 degrees this early in 20 years.

So I'm looking at all this wacky weather and asking a buddy of mine who's an environmentalist — you see, I live fair and balanced.

I ask him, "What's going on here? I thought you said I could throw out my parka for a thong?"

The image immediately caused him to recoil.

But he collected himself, then reminded me, "Neil, this is global warming."

"Wait a minute," I said.

"I thought global warming meant, I don't know, warming?"

No, he assured me, this is all part of God's great reaction to man's not-so-great wrecking of his planet.

Now I'm not the sharpest meteorological tool on the map, but even I wondered how my tree-hugging pal could have it both ways.

He assured me last year snow would soon be a memory.

That the oceans would be warming.

More hurricanes would be coming.

And glaciers would be melting.

But more snow than ever this year.

The first snow Vegas has seen in 30 years.

Temperatures below zero in at least 12 states in the Midwest and west, the most so early in any year.

And all coming after a hurricane season that brought largely bupkis this year.

"It's all part of warming," my friend reminded me.

You see, his is not a new forecast, just a revised one.

Where you can kind of have your environmental cake and eat it too.

Where the earth getting warmer is warming, and the earth getting cooler is warming.

So nothing to stop Washington from big environmental spending.

You see, my friend is pushing Congress for more such spending.

I wished him luck as he headed out.

And suggested one other thing: Bring a coat.

Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Ha...That makes me feel better about slacking on framing and displaying my degree.

(Correction to last post.... mpg instead of gph...too many agricultural abbreviations in muscle memory)
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
A prayer out to the survivors of Caylee Anthony.
The remains found in the woods near her home were positively identified as Caylee.
I can not fathom that kind of pain. May the Lord give them strength.
Another angel lights the sky and watches over God's little critters.
Member Since: September 11, 2008 Posts: 9 Comments: 10077
Quoting barryweather:
Not to make enemies, but the more I read the more I realize that GW skeptics can't handle change and GW theorists can. I like the forced bicycle idea though. We may decide to ban 20 gph or less vehicles at least.

Better still, replace the urban sprawl with easily traversed townships and villages. Make junk mail illegal as well while you're at it please. That ought to save some trees at least. Thank you.


I think we need another plaque. That would solve several problems.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Darwin Tropical Cyclone Warning Center
Tropical Cyclone Advice Number SEVENTEEN
TROPICAL CYCLONE BILLY
4:30 AM ACST December 20 2008
=====================================

At 3:30 am Australia CST, Tropical Cyclone Billy, Category Two [986 hPa] located at 14.9S 128.1E or 65 kms north of Wyndham and 170 kms west southwest of Port Keats has 10 minute sustained winds of 50 knots with gusts of 70 knots. The cyclone is reported as moving west-southwest at 6 knots.

The destructive core of Tropical Cyclone Billy is currently crossing the coast north of Wyndham.

The cyclone is expected to weaken into a tropical low by tonight as it crosses the north Kimberley region, but may re-develop into a tropical cyclone late in the weekend if it moves off the west Kimberley coast, causing gales between Kalumburu and Cockatoo Island.

Tropical Cyclone Technical Bulletin
=================================
12 HRS: 15.1S 127.5E - 30 knots (TROPICAL LOW)
24 HRS: 15.4S 126.7E - 25 knots (TROPICAL LOW)
48 HRS: 15.7S 124.9E - 25 knots (TROPICAL LOW)
72 HRS: 17.1S 122.7E - 30 knots (TROPICAL LOW)

REMARKS:
Tropical Cyclone 'Billy' has moved steadily WSW during the past 3-6 hours and is now crossing the east Kimberley coast north of Wyndham. Tightly wrapped spiral banding is evident on Wyndham radar and animated IR satellite imagery continues to show persistent cold dense cloud over the LLCC. The central cold cover cloud pattern indicates arrested development probably due to interaction with the coast.

Dvorak analysis at 1800 UTC based on MET/PAT=3.5. A consensus of NWP forecasts indicates continued W or WSW movement across the Kimberley region. There is the possibility of redevelopment off the west Kimberley coast between 48 and 72 hours, if the system maintains a generally WSW track.
Member Since: May 24, 2006 Posts: 50 Comments: 44717
Not to make enemies, but the more I read the more I realize that GW skeptics can't handle change and GW theorists can. I like the forced bicycle idea though. We may decide to ban 20 gph or less vehicles at least.

Better still, replace the urban sprawl with easily traversed townships and villages. Make junk mail illegal as well while you're at it please. That ought to save some trees at least. Thank you.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Boston College Webcam of the Snow Storm Link



Boston Skyline


This view from the top of the Merkert Chemistry Center takes in a portion of the diamond used by the women's softball team, the 135-acre Chestnut Hill Reservoir, and the skyscrapers of downtown Boston, just six miles away. Boston College was originally located in the citys South End an area to the right of the two tallest buildings on the horizon, the John Hancock Tower (left), built in 1976, and the Prudential Building, built in 1964.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
We can change the Face of Iracus..Link
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
What fools we are! Our naturally fearful species is whipped into a frenzy by self-promoting parasites and we are all set to running from the climate change bogeyman. World population rejects the massive taxing schemes proposed, so "science" finds another answer.

These climate "experts" should be forced to take the Hippocratic oath before they do anything more. "First do no harm." Massive sulfur injections into the stratosphere? What then? It will all fall back to Earth in a year or less as sulfuric acid. 66 ships spraying sea salt? Then the rain will contain too much salt for the survival of food crops. Wind farms? What effect will that have on surface winds and weather. Solar panels will have untoward effects on albedo and insolation if done in an economically significant quantity.

We need to stop these money and power grabbing "experts" for whom the real anomaly is the difference between their grant amounts and the positive effect they might ever have on anything but their own economic security. The fallacy is in thinking that "experts" can change the weather to make it better here on Earth. That is the fraud. No matter how hard we try, we can never do more than talk about the weather. It is hubris to believe we can alter it for our convenience. Anybody wants to trade his car for a bicycle, be my guest. If government attempts to mandate that, there will be a revolution.

They can all go to Poland and talk all they want. Just so they understand that we will never accept their "remedy" to the natural variation of Earth's climate, which goes up and down according to its own schedule, and so far has done nothing unusual. That is clear for anyone to see, except for those who insist that they see the clothes the emperor is not wearing.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting atmoaggie:

Pretending that we know all there is to know about the planet's natural cycles, especially in the oceans, is a sham.


atmoaggie, you're right - pretending we know something we don't is dangerous. Even more dangerous is pretending we don't know something we do.

Cumulative temp difference on a regression test show pretty decisively that CO2 is a factor. Not good enough? This matches scientific theory. Not good enough? It is evidenced on a much greater scale in Venus's atmosphere. It rains sulphuric acid there. Not nice weather.

Believing humans can't alter the atmosphere is naive. It is measured. Believing an altered atmosphere isn't going to cause temperature (and other) change is also naive.

The question isn't whether warming is happening, it's how much. Some have pointed to the normal solar cycle as the source of the warming trend, but those familiar with regression testing understands that it's the cumulative second order effect we're talking about, not the direct first order sunshine. Yes, the solar cycle does affect temp. Pretty obvious. The greenhouse effect delta is less direct than the solar cycle, and shows up only as an integral term slowly creeping things up a tiny bit year by year.

That's why scientists talk about confidence intervals on how much warming is happening, not whether it is or not. You put a blanket on a person at night, and you're more interested in discussing whether it's warm enough - not whether the blanket warms at all!

Waiting for proof there will not be catastrophic climate change before action is like asking for proof you'll die if you fall off a 16 foot cliff, and not changing your course based on it being in your path. Maybe you'll just be shook up if you go over, maybe you get hurt, maybe you die. But if you pretend the cliff ain't there until there's proof you'll get hurt falling off, I'm not going to follow you over it.

In psychology, rejecting raw information that doesn't fit into your worldview is called cognitive dissonance. From your family, it's called lying to yourself.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
So how much stock does Al Gore own in the company making these rotor boats?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:



:>)
Member Since: September 11, 2008 Posts: 9 Comments: 10077
yuk, yuk...
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting presslord:
not yesterday....but today offers another opportunity for them to catch me....


And all this time I was thinking that the canvas to be removed was on the Jeep, not your person. Silly me.
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
Thanks! We are all wonderful. I'm also collecting donations for the Houston Humane Society through active giving. Check out my blog for more info... he he.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
not yesterday....but today offers another opportunity for them to catch me....
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting smmcdavid:
Ha ha... busy finishing school and setting up our new house. Our classes got moved to College Station because of Ike. But I finally graduated last Sunday. Now I'm training for a 5K and staying home with my son. I'm always checking in though.


Congrats! Glad to hear y'all are doing well (have to be to do a 5k, that is).
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
Ha ha... busy finishing school and setting up our new house. Our classes got moved to College Station because of Ike. But I finally graduated last Sunday. Now I'm training for a 5K and staying home with my son. I'm always checking in though.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting presslord:
...btw....when I said earlier that I find this stuff fascinating...I in no way meant to convey, in any fashion whatsoever, that I actually understand any of it...
I'll have to second that emotion.
By the otherway, Did you get arrested yesterday for yanking the canvas off the ol' Wrangler and heading to the beach?
Member Since: September 11, 2008 Posts: 9 Comments: 10077
Quoting smmcdavid:


And I thought so highly of you...


Long time, no see. Where have ya been?

(tongue-in-cheek) What's a girl like you doing in a nice place like this?
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
Quoting presslord:
...btw....when I said earlier that I find this stuff fascinating...I in no way meant to convey, in any fashion whatsoever, that I actually understand any of it...


And I thought so highly of you...
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
...btw....when I said earlier that I find this stuff fascinating...I in no way meant to convey, in any fashion whatsoever, that I actually understand any of it...
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Woah, now this is interesting...

"The life cycles of two real tropical cyclones successfully predicted with a global model that resolves cloud systems

Atmospheric models that resolve clouds have greatly contributed to understanding local and regional climate; excessive computational needs have in the past allowed these models to be run only over limited areas. The increasing capability of high-end computers now allows numerical simulations with horizontal resolutions high enough to resolve cloud systems in a global model. Fudeyasu et al. (2008) analyzed initial results from the global Nonhydrostatic Icosahedral Atmospheric Model (NICAM), developed by Japanese scientists. In their study, NICAM simulation successfully reproduced the life cycles of two real tropical cyclones that formed in the Indian Ocean in 2006s austral summer. Initialized with atmospheric conditions that were present a few weeks before the cyclones formed, the model captured the timing of formation, motions, and overall evolution of the observed cyclones. The successful simulation is attributed to the realistic representation of the large-scale circulation and the embedded convective vortices. Thus, NICAM provides high temporal and spatial resolution data sets for detailed studies of tropical cyclone genesis and evolution, potentially ushering in a new era for weather and climate predictions."

From GRL abstract.

Successfully modeling 2 TCs from a few weeks before formation, through cyclogenesis, and then the full evolution of the systems. Cool.

Now if we could take this methodology and come up with an operational TC model capable and skilled at cyclogenesis through landfall (and beyond) with a 3 week lead time. Ah, the possibilities...
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
I can't shake the image of the stereotypical mad scientist with a doomsday device. (or any of Tesla's later ideas).

Next thing you know we'll be affixing millions of rockets to the earth, all facing west, in an attempt to slow down the earth's rotation to reduce the Coriolis force, and thus reduce hurricane strength ... unless, the world pays 1 billion dollars, muhahaha.

Seriously though, the legal ramifications of this sort of project are huge. Just think of the lawsuits ... all the people selling carbon credits will be out of business, they'll want compensation.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
42. Skyepony (Mod)
It seems geoengineering similiar to the 1st example is already occuring in the form of contrails & aerosols. There has been recent studies into this area after Sept 11-14, 2001, had the biggest diurnal temperature range of any three-day period in the past 30 years. If the contrails stopped tommarrow we would be looking a several degree immediate increase in temp. NOVA's Dimming the Sun covered this nicely.

I do advocate one form of geoengineering...planting. Plant trees, gorilla garden, grow your own. Everytime you put a seed to the earth you just gave a CO2 scrubber a chance.
Member Since: August 10, 2005 Posts: 161 Comments: 37331
I think Mother nature needs to be left alone and not try to alter it it would be to risky!
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Here is my idea. First, use a series of liquid nitrogen-cooled chambers to freeze out the CO2 and isolate it. Then, use a solar power plant to electrolyze water into hydrogen and oxygen. The oxygen can be released and the hydrogen can be reacted with the CO2 in the Bosch reaction to produce water and graphite. The water can be recycled to produce more hydrogen, and the graphite can be buried in abandoned mines and sealed off.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Darwin Tropical Cyclone Warning Center
Tropical Cyclone Advice Number SIXTEEN
TROPICAL CYCLONE BILLY
2:00 AM ACST December 20 2008
=====================================

At 12:30 am Austrlia CST, Tropical Cyclone Billy, Category Two [983 hPa] located at 14.8S 128.4E or 80 km north-northeast of Wyndham and 135 km west-southwest of Port Keats has 10 minute sustained winds of 50 knots with gusts of 70 knots. The cyclone is moving southwest at 4 knots.

The destructive core of Tropical Cyclone Billy is currently crossing the coast north of Wyndham.

Tropical Cyclone Watches/Warnings
=================================
A Cyclone WARNING continues for coastal areas from Mitchell Plateau in Western Australia to Port Keats in the Northern Territory.

A Cyclone WATCH continues for coastal areas from Mitchell Plateau to Cockatoo Island.

Tropical Cyclone Technical Bulletin (1200z UTC)
===================================
12 HRS: 14.8S 128.1E - 50 knots (CAT 2)
24 HRS: 14.9S 127.2E - 30 knots (TROPICAL LOW)
48 HRS: 14.9S 125.9E - 30 knots (TROPICAL LOW)
72 HRS: 15.9S 123.7E - 35 knots (CAT 1)

REMARKS:
Tropical Cyclone 'Billy' has remained near stationary for the past 6 hours and has tightly wrapped spiral banding evident on Wyndham radar. Animated IR satellite imagery shows persistent cold dense cloud over the system centre and
symmetric outflow. Dvorak analysis at 1200 UTC based on

MET=3.5 and PAT=3.5. The cyclone is forecast to commence a SW or W drift early Saturday under the influence of a strengthening mid-level ridge to the southwest. A consensus of NWP forecasts indicates weakening during passage across the north Kimberley then redevelopment off the west Kimberley coast between 48 and 72 hours.
Member Since: May 24, 2006 Posts: 50 Comments: 44717
Quoting MichaelSTL:
Speaking of heat accumulation in the ocean, the following graphics of sea surface height anomaly dramatically shows this; the first is from 2005 (neutral at this time, a weak La Nina developed later) second from 2007 (strong La Nina) and last from 2008 (weak La Nina); notice the western Pacific in particular (some of that is from the trades blowing water westwards but compare 2007 and 2008; even though last year had a much stronger La Nina present the SSH anomaly was lower):



The increase in the Atlantic is also notable (the scale is /- 30 centimeters so the variations are pretty significant).


I want to point out that this information doesn't mean anything at all in the realm of global trends. We haven't been measuring SSH for long enough to apply any meaning to what it is now relative to an average value (read: definition of anomaly) that might, if we are lucky, include 1 of the longer natural cycles.

I can show you that today is anomalously warm if I use the average temp from this morning 2 AM to 8 AM as my baseline.

You guys ever consider that we began measuring all of these parameters at about the same time (relative to climactic cycles) and maybe, just maybe, all of the anomalies and trends collectively are showing you a portion of the cycle during which we began measuring in the middle of? Outside of suspect pinpoint surface obs, we have no data spanning the last 3 ~30-year cycles. For example, our satellite obs only include the last PDO cold phase and warm phase. One each. Just as 1998 and 2007 ENSOs taught us, some cycles are stronger than others.


Pretending that we know all there is to know about the planet's natural cycles, especially in the oceans, is a sham.
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
35. MichaelSTL 9:23 AM PST on December 19, 2008

Quoting NRAamy:
yeah! tunnels! where's cb?

;)


I think he was permabanned from this blog for talking about them all the time,


If he doesn't belong on a geoengineering blog, then I don't know who does.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting groundswell:
Use the exhaust of the salt pump to produce wave action,with a sensor to apply exhaust in phase with existing swell component, thereby utilyzing 100% of process and improving surf quality!!! East coast this week really, really good-Tues over 6 foot, I'm still aching.Water temp bone chilling for me...expect continued water temp slide down into the 50's by Feb (Ponce)


Actually, wave action gives more surface area for evaporation. More water vapor in the air (a far more efficient GHG than CO2)...potential positive feedback to messing with a self-correcting system. Now THAT really would be anthropogenic induced warming, just the thing for which this idea would supposedly make amends for.
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461

Viewing: 83 - 33

Page: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10Blog Index

Top of Page

About

Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

Local Weather

Overcast
70 °F
Overcast