DEBATE ON GLOBAL WARMING!{Tesla}

By: Fshhead , 7:41 PM GMT on July 12, 2007

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This is my continuing blog on global warming. If you are new visitor, please look at last couple of blog entrys also on global warming!!!!







"There are so many arguments proving & disputing global warming that people can't seem to agree completly on it. But for all the preperations that we make for hurricanes & other disasters, what do we have to lose if we prepare for global warming as if the worst might come true?
The answer is pure common sense. We should try to eliminate the variables that cause global warming instead of just arguing about it. It's like a hurricane- if we prepare for the worst, it can only save lives & money. If it does not come, no one will have been hurt & we may even have a healthier Earth."


Book I recommend reading:


Videos I recommend:
"Who killed the electric car?"
HBO'S "To hot Not to handle"
"Inconvienent Truth"




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951. thunder1
3:54 AM GMT on October 22, 2007
Great response Michael, I totally agree.
A scientist cannot always supply proof.
As I stated before, scientists are not the know all of everything
And they have been wrong several times.
Going off your perspective, Nature is ever changing, and of a natural process which I agree with. But part of commmon sense says that man interrupts the natural process.
The population is growing around the world on a rapid pace.
A pace which has never happen, more than ever humans are interferring with the natural process.
Now experienced people or scientists can hardly predict daily events much less the past or even the future.
Example: predictions of massive hurricans, and they are where?
No matter the technology, it is imposible to predict the process of nature or its ever changing. Graphs may show what has happen, or what guess what may happen, but none of them show what actually is happening acturatelly.
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949. kentuckystormwatcher
7:06 PM EDT on October 21, 2007
Points to ponder............With every piece of info that comes up supporting "global warming" equally as much info can dispute it. Common sense is needed to put things in perspective....Humans and our machines are but a pinpoint of trillions of pinpoints on this earth. Our tiny presence is almost irrelevant when looking at the "big" picture.....We as humans arent as mighty and important to the earth as we like to think. The earth and its atmosphere will take care of itself. Now I am not saying be a polluter. We do impact our microscopic existence.................................

The globe may be warming but it is most likely a natural happening that has no influence from man. Nature is ever changing. Not so many years ago I distinctly remember when all the hype was about "are we headed to a new ice age?" Weather records are always being broken and always will.

A scientist with experience can always provide "proof" for any scenario wanted...................
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948. LowerCal
2:43 PM PDT on October 21, 2007
Good discussion Fish. You're excused for not checking out the meteor shower, lol. ;^)

I think everyone can agree we need stop burning fossil fuels ... except those making a profit from it, lol.

I thought you might be interested in Lights Out Miami, an energy conservation experiment that will also help restore the night sky.
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942. weatherforecaster17
8:32 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
Fshhead,

I do understand pumping and storing hydrogen gas is a safety hazard. We did an experiment in Chemistry class where we had to produce hydrogen gas through a chemical reaction of HCL and Magnesium ribbon and I do know the dangers that were associated with that lol. I think electric would be better for safety but I would agree on electric with batteries without the solar factor involved.

Alex
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941. thunder1
8:31 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
got a minute to chat bro?
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940. Fshhead
8:31 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
Guys tell you right now if anything is erased it was NOT me!!!! lol I think everyone knows me better than that by now. Just as long as its civil, no prob lol I did notice the blog was acting funny when I came here cause it never posted one of my comments.
Member Since: November 19, 2005 Posts: 9 Comments: 9960
939. Fshhead
8:26 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
Well Alec at least we agree on the alternative energy!!! Thats a start lol
Hmmm been through this before about hydrogen. Great idea on paper at least. The perfect clean fuel. First of all WAY in the future to be readily available worldwide. Second is the safety factor, dont have to remind anyone how volatile hydrogen is & your going to let every person who drives a car to pump hydrogen into it??? My opinion BIG risk factor there.
Personally I think electric car is the one, hopefully charged by solar means. That is my version of the perfect clean fuel!!!
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938. thunder1
8:27 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
dude, whats up?
wheatherforecaster and I were having a chat, but it seems to have been erased, dunno why,lol
we were nice, lmao
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937. Fshhead
8:25 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
& I guess we BOTH figured out which side of the fence we are on!! lol

Thunder Whats Up Man???
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936. weatherforecaster17
8:21 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
Fshhead,

I do agree that we need to develop alternative energy sources and get off of oil, I just have a problem believing that the burning of oil in power plants and gasoline in cars is having an large impact on global warming. I'm personally intrigued with hydrogen power myself. What are your thoughts on hydrogen power?

Alex
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935. Fshhead
8:20 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
Yes, Alex dont get to miffed here my friend, I repect your view as I have with others but, it IS a debate here as the name says lol.
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934. thunder1
8:23 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
finally dude
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933. Fshhead
8:15 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
Well Alex, like I havepointed out over & over.
Lets forget the global warming & focus on my main thing here. OIL!!!!!!! & now I guess even though for me it is common sense I guess your going to try & say its political again. If the main industrial nations all started to switch to alternative energy transportation I think the global warming if it is a problem caused by us would take care of itself. Like I have pointed out oil, is the problem here with me, the global warming thing just came along & fit into the equation here.
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932. thunder1
8:18 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
No problem friend
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931. weatherforecaster17
8:17 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
Thanks thunder1 :).
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930. thunder1
8:00 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
Weatherforecaster, I understood everything you wrote, and I do respect your views. I also agree that everything most likely isnt done by man but we may not being helping the situation.
I am not here to disrespect anyone, or their views. We all may have alot of the same views.
I know I do not know everything, but many think if a person doesnt follow the main stream views
that something is wrong with them or they did
not do the research. We are open to your views,
but please dont act like your view is the only one. Fsh has done alot of research as you may of as well. just as humans, science has been wrong as well. there is good points on both sides as I stated, but I also try to use my experiences in life and not always listen to someone just because.....
your views are welcome Alex, just debating or venting, lol
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929. weatherforecaster17
8:09 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
El Nino is only a possiblity right now and yes I do know we are going into a La Nina, I have seen the temperature maps for the Pacific. That's nice that you have gone over "facts" and really longevity has nothing to do with accuracy. Well when you put it this way: 9/11 = Iraq, then its pretty apparent that global warming is not a environmental topic, but a political one.

Alex
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928. Fshhead
8:06 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
K now I am staying lol!!!!
Ahhhhh so you think we are in El-Nino right now??? lol
Alex, I have been doing this blog for quite some time now,I do believe that I have gone over a "few" facts in that time lol
Ohhhh BTW.... dont get me started on things that are believed cause they have been repeated enough lol Hello???? 9/11=Iraq lol
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927. weatherforecaster17
8:06 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
Fshhead, I never said La Nina, I said EL NINO. Could you not take my words out of context please, thanks.

Alex
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926. weatherforecaster17
8:03 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
Fshhead, apparently you haven't even taken a look at the facts yet and you only believe so called "facts" that are told to you enough times that you believe them.

Alex
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925. weatherforecaster17
8:00 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
I'm glad we are on the same page robodave :).
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924. Fshhead
8:02 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
weatherforecaster17 9:03 PM GMT on October 20, 2007
I personally don't think that we as little humans on this big planet have any impact on the enviorment what so ever.

Your seriously think that???? C'mon, ALL that stuff that we pump into the atmosphere has to accumalate somewheres!!!

I personally think from a meterological and climatological stand point, that we are experencing an El Nino which last time I checked was still a natural cycle.

Mmmmm have to disagree AGAIN! lol I am pretty sure if not positive that we are in La-Nina conditions right now & sully has pointed out to me that it is getting stronger as we speak.

Soooo right back at ya my friend, I think it is YOU that needs to go checking some facts here lol

AS ALWAYS PEOPLE THANX FOR READIN' & POSTIN'!!
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923. sullivanweather
3:52 AM EDT on October 21, 2007
Fish,

I don't know if you're around, but go outside for the meteor shower tonight....some really good ones so far.

Hope you're able to catch some!
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922. weatherforecaster17
7:51 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
Thunder1,

First of all I respect your views even though I don't personally agree with them. Second of all I never said my views were right that's why I had said you don't have to agree with me. I also think that you have somehow ignored the main point of my words, which makes me wonder: Did you ignore the main point of my words just because you didn't hold the same belief I do? Lastly, I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that humans are not behind global warming.

With the greatest utmost respect for your opinions,

Alex
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921. robodave
7:34 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
Sullivanweather, a scholarly observation! I myself have seen this countless times. Climate change explains everything from a womans period to the chatter of birds. When the earth starts cooling down, global warming will explain that too. Don't believe it? I'm a very patient man! I'll wait here and watch the grass grow. When it starts to cool down and there is every reason to believe global warming is causing it, get back to me and we'll talk it over dinner.

weatherforecaster17, I couldn't agree more! I hate turning on the TV anymore. If there's a problem, 9 out of 10 times its our fault. Whatever happened to humility and respect for the awesomeness of nature?? I admit we humans are a nasty bunch and can make a mess at times, but its blown way out of proportion. More mess is going to be made by blaming ourselves for things we didn't do. I can see it now. A polar bear drowns while trying to reach land, and millions cut their throat in protest. Then the economy crashes. Whats it going to take for us to realize we're not the center of the universe and are dwarfed by nature. Things happen. Its not rocket science.
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920. weatherforecaster17
7:46 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
I never said my views were right, that's why I said you don't have to agree with me, duh :/.
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919. thunder1
6:59 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
Good views Sullivanweather, I totally agree, but I think it will be worse than you say.
People already think Im crazy, and I may be.
But within the next 2 years when all of this happens, I hope people dont say they were never warned.
Ya, cigarettes that makes me laugh.
Meanwhile FDA is doing squat inspecting foreign goods and regulating 65 million drug prescriptions that are not approved.
Oh ya, they are understaffed and lack funds.
Although the top officials are making 6 figures
and giving themselves 50 thousand dollar bonuses.
I dont even make their bonus.
And they are looking out for tax paying citizens, please.
Lets not get started on the China recalls.
But yet smoking is bad for us, when it is not even being kept track of, whatever else is probably more of a risk.
This is what we get with Government run business.
1 percent of inspections are being done to foreign goods.Any corperations would be out of business with that type of pecentage.
But the Government continuiously fails to protect the citizens. Atleast they are making good salaries for doing absolutely nothing.
Thats were all our hard working taxes are going.
Wow, thanks for being here for vent sessions,
lmao
Good day friends

Thunder
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918. thunder1
6:02 AM GMT on October 21, 2007
Hey weatherforecaster, I am not a scientist
myself. Whatever kind of scientist you are, I give you your props. But just by being one does not make your views right.
Fshhead has re-thought and researched the facts, and if you take your time on this site more, you may see all the facts he has shown.
There are many facts that dispute yours, and facts are on both sides of the issue.
You can use numbers and graphs all day long, but there comes a time when you have to use simple common sense.
Would everyone agree that everything for the most part has some sort of life?
Now on that, as human beings our bodies natural cycles also work constantly.
If you put something in your body that is unnatural or harmful to your system, your
natural process changes. Which can cause illness, total shut down or death.
Now can this same process work for other instances? I believe so.
We are not just little humans on this big planet. Human population is rising all around the world at an extreme pace. No time in the life of this planet has there been such a population as there is now. Which means we are using more natural resourses and consuming some of the very things that this planet may need for its natural process. We are disrupting the process with total disreguard of the consequences. We can barely predict the weather from day to day much less what happen 100 years ago or even a month from now.
I think there could be good points on both sides, but thats when it is time to use just plain simple common sense.

Oil has reached a new record at 90 dollars a barrel. HMMMMM, another 2 weeks gas will be at
$3.3o a gallon or more. Time to hit record
quarterly profits again.
This upcoming winter will take a huge hit on the middle class and poor. Well see how great the economy is in 2 months and how the media dances around it.
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916. sullivanweather
1:06 AM EDT on October 21, 2007
It's going to be fun to rip this article apart at the seams...

Just when you thought that you've seen it all...
_______________________


Climate change blamed for fading foliage By DAVE GRAM, Associated Press Writer


EAST MONTPELIER, Vt. - Every fall, Marilyn Krom tries to make a trip to Vermont to see its famously beautiful fall foliage.

This year, she noticed something different about the autumn leaves.

"They're duller, not as sparkly, if you know what I mean," Krom, 62, a registered nurse from Eastford, Conn., said during a recent visit. "They're less vivid."

Other "leaf peepers" are noticing, too, and some believe climate change could be the reason.

----

Okay. Let me stop the article here. Now climate change is affecting leaf colour?

First of all I must point out that this year has been one of the best, if not the best year that I've seen as far as leaf colour goes. I'm not the only one with the opinion also. Most of the folks I talk to locally have also commented on the spectacular colours this year, but let's move on...


-----

Forested hillsides usually riotous with reds, oranges and yellows have shown their colors only grudgingly in recent years, with many trees going straight from the dull green of late summer to the rust-brown of late fall with barely a stop at a brighter hue.

"It's nothing like it used to be," said University of Vermont plant biologist Tom Vogelmann, a Vermont native.

He says autumn has become too warm to elicit New England's richest colors.

According to the National Weather Service, temperatures in Burlington have run above the 30-year averages in every September and October for the past four years, save for October 2004, when they were 0.2 degrees below average.

-----

Another pause. This time for a mistake (doesn't anyone EVER edit these articles??)

STATION: BURLINGTON
MONTH: OCTOBER
YEAR: 2006
LATITUDE: 44 28 N
LONGITUDE: 73 9 W
AVERAGE MONTHLY: 46.9
DPTR FM NORMAL: -0.8

Hmmm...so I guess every Sept and Oct wasn't above avg.



--------

Warming climate affects trees in several ways.

Colors emerge on leaves in the fall, when the green chlorophyll that has dominated all spring and summer breaks down.

The process begins when shorter days signal leaves to form a layer at the base of their stems that cuts off the flow of water and nutrients. But in order to hasten the decline of chlorophyll, cold nights are needed.

In addition, warmer autumns and winters have been friendly to fungi that attack some trees, particularly the red and sugar maples that provide the most dazzling colors.

"The leaves fall off without ever becoming orange or yellow or red. They just go from green to brown," said Barry Rock, a forestry professor at the University of New Hampshire.

He says 2004 was "mediocre, 2005 was terrible, 2006 was pretty bad although it was spotty. This year, we're seeing that same spottiness."

-------

In 2005 news articles trumpted that the 2005 fall foliage season was "THE BEST IN MANY YEARS PERHAPS DECADES" and many folks tended to agree. This includes me. I personally thought 2005 was particularly grand in the foliage dept. until Wilma brought an early season snowstorm which stripped a lot of leaves from the trees. By this time, however, it was Oct 25th and most of the peak season had already passed.

2006 was the bad year. The reason for this was MUCH above normal precipitation all summer with very little sunshine. There were several 10-14 day periods of rain and clouds. Autumn brought through many windy fronts with below nnormal temperatures (as pointed out above). Although Burlington was above normal in Sept, most climate stations across the NE were below normal.

September 2006.



This map shows the NE region as having it's 40th coolest September out of 112 years of record keeping (which is near normal, but on the cool side of normal).

October 2006.



October 2006 was also on the cool side of normal (44th coolest October out of 112 years of record keeping). Not only was Oct 2006 below normal, but so was oct 2004 and oct 2003...-----


"Leaf peeping" is big business in Vermont, with some 3.4 million visitors spending nearly $364 million in the fall of 2005, according to state estimates.

State tourism officials reject the notion that nature's palette is getting blander. Erica Housekeeper, spokeswoman for the state Department of Tourism and Marketing, said she had heard nothing but positive reports from foresters and visitors alike this year.

The problem is perception, Housekeeper says: Recollections of autumns past become tinged by nostalgia.

"Sometimes, we become our own worst critics," Housekeeper said.

People who rely on autumn tourism in New England are worried.

"I don't have a sense that the colors are off, but the timing is definitely off," said Scott Cowger, owner and innkeeper at the Maple Hill Farm Bed & Breakfast Inn at Hallowell, Maine.

"Some trees are just starting to change now," Cowger said Thursday. "It used to be, religiously, it was the second week of October when they were at their peak. I would tell my guests to come the second week if you want to see the peak colors. But it's definitely the third or fourth week at this point."

People in Northampton, Mass., are still waiting on fall color. If foliage-viewing is the goal, "I wouldn't send anybody down this way yet," Autumn Inn desk clerk Mary Pelis said this past week.

"The way things are going, the foliage season is the one sure thing for us," said Amie Emmons, innkeeper at the West Mountain Inn, in Arlington, Vt. "We book out two years in advance. It's very concerning if you think the business could start to be affected."

----

On a side note I did try to find some articles on the 2005 fall foliage season. When I searched "2005 fall foliage" news articles on yahoo 131 hits were returned and they all are of the article posted above. It seems as though every news media organization has taken this exact same story and ran with it.

Which means there are probably over 100 news outlets reporting this false story and every person that reads this story will have another false 'climate change fact' endoctrined into their head. Sad sad state of affairs...


What I found on google was this, however...


Pennsylvania Dept. of Conservation and Natrual Resources 2005 fall foliage update (10/11/2005)

Maine Dept. of Conservation report 10/12/2005

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915. sullivanweather
2:12 AM EDT on October 21, 2007
,
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914. weatherforecaster17
8:51 PM GMT on October 20, 2007
I personally don't think that we as little humans on this big planet have any impact on the enviorment what so ever. I wish to point out that there are natural cycles at work constantly whether they are 1 year long or 1,500 years long. I personally think from a meterological and climatological stand point, that we are experencing an El Nino which last time I checked was still a natural cycle. Now I'm not a meterologist nor a climatologist but I consider myself a scientist nonetheless, so you don't have to agree with me on this, but I seriously recommend that you check and re-think your facts if you seriously think that humans are having any impact on the current global climate.

Thank for taking the time to read this :).

Alex
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913. thunder1
7:57 PM GMT on October 20, 2007
Hey friend, I am waiting for the rise in prices as well, its bound to happen.
Its been quiet, and I know the big boys
are itching to make a record quarter profit again,lol. Alot of middle income families are already being hit my friend.
Unfortinately the media is not going to report how bad it really is.
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912. Fshhead
7:39 PM GMT on October 20, 2007
Pretty well my friend, getting nervous though with the oil prices going through the roof. I am wondering how this will set the price at the pump at........ One thing for sure, I hope you guys up north have a mild winter or else there will be ALOT more stories like the one Sully posted earlier about the low & now middle-class people struggling bigtime!!!
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911. thunder1
7:38 PM GMT on October 20, 2007
not much bro, how you doing?
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910. Fshhead
7:19 PM GMT on October 20, 2007
Hey Thunder Whats up???
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909. thunder1
7:19 PM GMT on October 20, 2007
whats up friend?
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908. Fshhead
7:04 PM GMT on October 20, 2007
Uya, WELCOME!!!!!
I just want to point out here cause you have so much on Hillary there that not all of us democrats are pulling for Hillary lol I personally like Edwards,Obama & Richardson. I even like your Ron Paul too!!! One thing I think both parties can agree on is that we need a fresh new start here in this country. I think all of these guys are very capable of doing so. I have told many people this, no matter who gets in they should definitley hire alot of the candidates into their cabinet. I think there is even a place for Gravel(as crazy as that sounds). I will say this if it came down to Hillary or Ron Paul, Hmmmmmm I think I just might vote for a Republican!! lol
Also Sully knows cause we have spoke many times about this, I am TOTALLY against all the Co2 taxes & such cause in the end it hurts the lower & now middle class too much! The companies will still enjoy there profits cuase most of those taxes WILL be passed on to the consumer.
OHHHHH BTW.... NOT a Gore fan either lol

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907. UYA
9:58 AM GMT on October 20, 2007
This is a large part of the answer.
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906. sullivanweather
5:36 AM EDT on October 20, 2007
You lost me on the military stuff...

It's not going to matter soon who one votes for when everyone is pro environment (which would include tough stances on GHG's).

Can you imagine the outcry there's going to be when someone doesn't support taxing GHG's 5 or 10 years down the line in the future??
When most of the population becomes hooked on global warming how could someone become elected with an anti GW stance?

Might as well prepare for the changes now i.e. start saving your pennies.

(by the way I like your avatar...I live right up the street)
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905. UYA
9:18 AM GMT on October 20, 2007
Alright Sullivan......why not just elect a person that does not want to run your life....or run any other Country's business either?
The GW fray is only going to hurt the poor countrys!
Why should the voting population of the US vote for that?
How would we like it if other countrys told us what to do?
Just bring our military back home and stop clubbing the world into submission!
We can balance our budget and inspire our scientific community at home to further develop Solar power and many other energy sources.
Don't keep throwing it at the Military complex.
The whole military machine can be retooled for the betterment of our country....and that is better for the Planet!
We have to set a new example.
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904. sullivanweather
5:13 AM EDT on October 20, 2007
On another note about the taxes that will be levied on businesses...

They really don't care what they get taxed extra. They'll complain about it a whole lot, but in the end all those extra taxes are just going to be passed on down to the consumer.

With the price of energy products going up they way they have, combined with heavy taxes that will come on these industries that produce electricity/manufacture goods using these energy sources expect your utility bills to at least double over the next 5 years.

The article I posted earlier this evening already illustrates the problems most folks are having living paycheck to paycheck.

This isn't just poor folks, but even households making $35,000 a year, median income in some states, are having trouble making it week to week and now have to rely on food pantrys and soup kitchens.

It's unbelieveable that in the
United States today families making a median household income have to skip meals and are unable to buy themselves fresh produce and healthy food and must settle for processed grain products.

There's greater and greater percentages of people having to settle for service jobs in the retail sector as America turns into one big shopping mall. This type of income will not support a family in a few years, it hardly does now.
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903. sullivanweather
4:59 AM EDT on October 20, 2007
UYA,

There's plenty of disinformation on both sides of the issue.

As far as the politics of this goes...

I really don't think our current lifestyles in this country will be lasting too much long. To be against global warming is now politically incorrect and viewed upon as being anti-environment. Hence laws are going to eventually be passed that will tax CO2, restirct unnecessary travel, etc.

First it'll start at taxing industries (power plants or any industry that produces CO2) and auto makers that fail to reach gov't quotas for fleet average MPG.

Then you'll see things happen like having to buy travel credits to go anywhere in cars that are gas powered (assuming cars that run on alternative energy begin to become more common). I'm sure there's other measures that will be taken as well. As soon as they find a precendent to tax for something, someone somewhere will be thinking up ways of taxing any related activity that involves the original taxed item.

For example it'll start with taxing cars....then ATV's and golf carts...
Before you know it you get taxed on the number of hours it takes to mow your lawn. They'll figure this out by how much grass you have and tax by the hour it takes to run that nasty polluting lawn mower...

Many folks might think I'm crazy for writing this, but look how far taxes and laws have come for other things that the gov't suddenly decides to frown upon because they feel it will kill people, say cigarettes.
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902. UYA
8:55 AM GMT on October 20, 2007
Anyone who is interested in open and rigorous debate should be seriously sceptical about the idea that facts can ever be subservient to a Bigger Truth. Trying to get people to obey your diktats and change their behaviour by scaring them with ‘good lies’ – by using errors and alarmism to drive home a message that is apparently essentially true – would once have been considered the practice of tinpot dictators. Tyrannical governments frequently use ‘good lies’ to keep people in line. Now we have environmentalists justifying a similar approach when it comes to raising people’s awareness of climate change. But an error is not ‘the truth’, whatever Gore’s defenders might say.

They should heed the words of Mark Twain: ‘A good lie will have travelled half way around the world while the truth is putting on her boots.’

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901. UYA
8:22 AM GMT on October 20, 2007
Clinton's success in gathering money from Chinatown's least-affluent residents stems from a two-pronged strategy: mutually beneficial alliances with powerful groups, and appeals to the hopes and dreams of people now consigned to the margins.


That's what you GW guys need to have tatooed on your eyeballllllls!


If she treats hard working people like this and doesn't care....how is she going to treat you?

You have to understand that money is not the issue in this upcoming election!
It's about the Republic and who is a real American!
This country is not a Democracy!
It is a Republic!
We have a democratic type government and society....but never forget.....this is a Republic!
The only freedoms you still have are because this is a Republic......and yet you shmooze up to the Democrats like Algore and Clinton!!
I laugh in your faces!
What you sow so shall ye reap boys!
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