The Northeast Weather Blog...

Wednesday storm thoughts for 14-15th...
Posted by: Zachary Labe, 7:27 PM GMT on January 06, 2008 +0
"Afternoon thoughts"
Good January afternoon. For Thursday things quiet down all in preparation for the next front that will come through this Friday. This will be a stronger front, that could pose some problems in terms of mix precipitation in the far north. The NAM model shows it really cold with mixing as far south as I80. But for now I like the GFS solution, with a little mixing in the extreme north. There will not be to many flooding issues as most of the snowpack is gone, though rainfall could be heavy. Possibly over 1inch can be expected. The mix of precipitation should not cause too many problems. Then things clear out completely by Friday night with much more seasonable air.

"Short Term"
Ok, this short term is devoted to all the weather events this weekend that will lead up to the 14-15th storm. For saturday it appears that temperatures will be getting back to normal with highs in the 30s statewide. The real colder air is going to move in for Saturday night and Sunday ahead of the real storm. Alot of ingredients are there for this storm.
1. High pressure to north of storm(in Canada).
2. Contrasting airmasses of real warmth and cold.
3. Strong pattern shift.
4. Above normal Atlantic Ocean temperatures.
5. Strong gulf flow.
6. No low pressure heading up west of Appalachians.
7. 992mb pressure possible, off of the coast of Cape Cod.
8. High pressure will slow movement of storm.
9. NAO-Neutral to negative.
10. Cold air with eastern trough will push the storm just far enough off the coast to affect many people with snow.
These are the top reasons I could come up with to support the storm. Sunday appears to be cloudy and cool with snow approaching southern PA by noon.
Current Radar...
Current Radar...

"Long Term"
This long term is devoted now to the 14-15th storm. But real quick, for the long term after the storm. It appears it stays cold with more possible snowstorms. I see no warmup in sight after this one. Ok, now on to the storm. First off I want to start off by saying that even though the storm is getting closer, I still do not think any of us have a better idea than yesterday or the day before then on this storm. The GFS still shows a flat wave heading out to sea and some of the other models such as the EURO show a big coastal storm. I think that the GFS will gain a concensus soon. It is hard to say what is going to happen with this storm. I would be interested to hear everyone thoughts on this system. My thoughts are that it heads up the coast and areas west of I95 see snow. So for today I want to hear everybodies thoughts and tomorrow I will update fully on new updates on the potential storm.
Outlook for Coastal Storm...
"Subject to Change"

Current NAO...
NAO...
Notice the negative trend.


"Just to throw out there"

I think we should throw out the recent 12z run of the GFS. I do not think this is the solution of the storm. All of my forecasts made today are based off of several models including the 6z GFS. This is a similar solution to what I think will happen.

"Regional Forecasts" (Wednesday Night)
1. Eastern- (Allentown, Southern Poconos)-
Windy with clear skies.(WestnorthWest). Low 32.

2. South Central (Harrisburg, York, Lancaster)(my home)-
Winds becoming calmer.(WestnorthWest). Low 31.

3. Southern- (Philadelphia)-
Windy.(WestnorthWest). Low 36.

4. Central- (State College)-
Clear skies. Low 30.

5. Northern- (Erie, Bradford, Williamsport)-
Partly cloudy. Low 28.

6. Western- (Pittsburgh)-
Partly cloudy. Low 29.

7. Johnstown, Altoona-
Mostly clear skies. Low 26.

January Outlook
Well already it is January 3rd and it seems like the holidays flew by. Anyway it is time to look at the monthly outlook. Overall it appears temperatures on average will be around .5-1degree below normal when the month comes to an end. Periods of arctic air and somewhat mild air will cause only a minor below average temperature. There will be though times of very warm conditions, especially from the 6-11th of the month. Then there will be cold times like the first few days in January and the last 2-3weeks in January. Precipitation should come out well above normal. We are in a very active weather pattern due to the La Nina especially. Storms seem very frequent throughout the month. Snowfall will probably be above normal across much of the state except the far southeast. About 1-4inches above normal looks likely. So overall it appears to be a relatively cold January with normal to above normal snowfall. I know this does not agree with other January outlooks by Accuweather or NOAA, but I still believe it will end up being overall cold. Those weather services seem to be overestimating the warm air from the La Nina. They predicted a warm December and it ended up being colder with alot of snow in some areas. It will be interesting to see how the rest of this month plays out. So stay warm!!!


***Note on regional map, the number equals which region in Pennsylvania. I chose regions with similar climates, geography, and elevation to make my overall forecast for the region.

Regional Map...
Categories: Weekly Forecast
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1. WeatherBobNut 9:14 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
great update blizzard, I agree with what you had to say...I will be doing an update sometime this evening...
2. dean2007 9:24 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
The GFS continues to do the usual cat and mouse games we are used to seeing. I think the coastal areas northeast of New York city including SE MA and Cape Cod, MA will be the jackpot areas for this coastal storm, but however if rain does changeover then there will be a lot less snow amounts, but I believe we will be fighting the rain/snow line more then the no snow and out to sea situation. Great update Blizzard.
3. Zachary Labe 10:04 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
Thankyou, here is something from the NWS out of Mount Holly about the storm...
SUNDAY, WILL SEE YET ANOTHER POTENTIAL RAIN MAKER AS LOW PRESSURE
FORMS OVER THE SOUTHEAST AND THEN HEADS NE ALONG THE COAST. SINCE
THE AIRMASS IS NOT TOO COLD, MOSTLY RAIN IS FCST, ALTHOUGH THERE
COULD BE SOME SNOW NORTH.
What are anybodys thought on this?
Member Since: December 14, 2007 Posts: 253 Comments: 14310
4. sullivanweather 10:47 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
Looks like the GFS is doing is normal day 5-8 swoon.

Once we fall within 108hrs the GFS will pick the storm back up.
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5. Zachary Labe 10:50 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
18z GFS has the storm well off the coast not affecting anyone.
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6. charlesimages 10:51 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
Nice update man.

This warm air is lovely I must say =)

Thoughts? Hmm... Not to dampen your spirits (no pun intended) but I think there will be more rain before the snow changeover begins..
Member Since: May 25, 2006 Posts: 344 Comments: 29244
7. charlesimages 10:51 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
GFS.. jumping around yet again huh?
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8. sullivanweather 11:01 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
For some reason the 18z runs of the GFS model seem to always bring the arctic down to the mid-latitudes.

Yesterday's run had temperatures of -30°F in northern Minnesota....for HIGHS
Lows down to -40°F to -50°F.

Now that would be something else, huh?

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9. Zachary Labe 11:02 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
Thoughts? Hmm... Not to dampen your spirits (no pun intended) but I think there will be more rain before the snow changeover begins..

charlesimages-What storm do you mean?
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10. Zachary Labe 11:02 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
I noticed that. Yesterday it had -30c approaching New England.
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11. charlesimages 11:04 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
Oh heck yes Sully.. and WAY out there too LOL!

We actually did have lows down into the -20s last February... here in Michigan.. but I highly doubt that happens this time, there is still a lot of warmer.. more moist air aloft
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12. charlesimages 11:02 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
B92, this one right now... that will impact all of us.. the LOW in NRN TX. Which one did you think I meant???

This Pacific HIGH sure has been nice to us ever since it moved on shore .. except for the fog
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13. sullivanweather 11:08 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
Charles,

The longer the AO stays positive the longer that arctic air is allowed to build up there...

While I dont agree with the GFS long range forecast I do foresee a pretty good arctic outbreak coming down a few weeks out..
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14. charlesimages 11:09 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
You suggesting February Sully? Please don't tell me it's in March LOL
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15. Zachary Labe 11:13 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
Personally I think we are in for a cold February across the northern states.
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16. sullivanweather 11:14 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    



The 200mb anomalies show a ridge beginning to build over eastern Asia.

This usually will displace large cold airmasses that develop over Siberia and send them over this way...

This will most likely happen when the pattern of a trough over Baffin Bay and the western Atlantic ridge pattern breaks down
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17. Zachary Labe 11:20 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
Does anybody know why I can no longer see the EURO model runs?
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18. charlesimages 11:25 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
sweet map Sully, and thanks!
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19. sullivanweather 11:26 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
Blizzard,

easternwx apparently violated distribution policies for the ECMWF model

I guess the Europeans are very eliteist about their little gem model...
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20. Zachary Labe 11:28 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
Ok, sullivanweather, did you see that relatively strong high pressure stationed north of New York on the 14th of January?
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21. WeatherBobNut 11:31 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
on yes, the usual 18z bogus run,... Don't pay attention to this run guys, check the o6z runs in the morning and I'm sure it will be back. And Margusity will be estatic along with the rest of us. Those darn models, they drive me nuts!!!
22. charlesimages 11:31 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
so now we can no longer see the ECMWF model??
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23. charlesimages 11:32 PM GMT on January 06, 2008    
LOL yeah Bob
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24. Zachary Labe 12:37 AM GMT on January 07, 2008    
Here is something from the NWS out of Mount Holly about the storm...
SUNDAY, WILL SEE YET ANOTHER POTENTIAL RAIN MAKER AS LOW PRESSURE
FORMS OVER THE SOUTHEAST AND THEN HEADS NE ALONG THE COAST. SINCE
THE AIRMASS IS NOT TOO COLD, MOSTLY RAIN IS FCST, ALTHOUGH THERE
COULD BE SOME SNOW NORTH.
What are anybodys thought on this?
Member Since: December 14, 2007 Posts: 253 Comments: 14310
25. charlesimages 12:42 AM GMT on January 07, 2008    
My thought on that is..

"
Thoughts? Hmm... Not to dampen your spirits (no pun intended) but I think there will be more rain before the snow changeover begins.."


LOL Looks like what I pretty much predicted earlier in here at 5:51 PM EST on January 06, 2008
Member Since: May 25, 2006 Posts: 344 Comments: 29244
26. WeatherBobNut 2:07 AM GMT on January 07, 2008    
Hi guys...i just read Margusitys update and thoughts on the storms and he stated that to not get upset if the BIG storm for the 14th 15th doesn't show up on the models....just like i've been trying to say, the models will be back and forth on this storm and it will finally come into agreement soon....hang in there....
27. dean2007 5:57 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
Any thoughts on the hypercane theory by Dr. Kerry Emanuel. Read my blog, for more information.
28. Zachary Labe 8:57 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
dean2007- I will check it out.
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29. dean2007 9:12 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
I agree with that consensus Blizzard. The I95 corridor will be the rain/snow line and areas further east will see snow quickly changeover to rain, and sullivanweather thinks that the 20th storm will be the big one, check his comments he says it there and I believe there will be one on the 20th as well as everything is coming together for that date.
30. Zachary Labe 9:14 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
The 12z model run shows a pretty impressive storm for the 20th. But I do not buy the track of heading off the Virginia coast and then heading straight north towards Albany.

I am still excited with the 14th storm. Because I am desperate for some good snow here.
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31. dean2007 9:16 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
I think Dr. Joe Shobel is talking about the immediate coast east of the I95 corridor, my area, although he says any snow, so I'm not totally buying that plus he always underestimates snowfall in any storm and never says too much about a storm, so picture him the conservative one (NWS).
32. Zachary Labe 9:22 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
Ok, LOL he does always always underestimate snowfall.
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33. Zachary Labe 11:10 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
18z GFS model run is out and it has no storm for the 15th. I mean no storm at all. I do not seeone even really far east. Correct me if I am wrong though. Personally the 18z model run is always the odd ball run.
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34. Snowlover2010 11:31 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
I live west of I-95, a little north of Lancaster and whenever they say the rain/snow line is I-95 corridor I get rain. I am hoping that we get a snowstorm next week but have a gut feeling I will only have rain.

Any thouhts on me possibly getting a snowstorm?
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35. Zachary Labe 11:36 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
Ok, I am very familiar with the Lancaster region. I do think if this coastal storm occurs most people see snow. I do on my outlook map for the storm, have Lancaster County in a moderate snow accumulation. I did not place the county in heavy snow accumulation because I do think you will see some sleet or maybe freezing rain.

I do think the entire state of Pennsylvania by the middle of next week will be cold enough for snow if any storms heads this way.
So watch out, because this winter is going to throw a few surprises.
Member Since: December 14, 2007 Posts: 253 Comments: 14310
36. dean2007 11:36 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
Well the 18z GFS does have the 14th and 15th storm just really far south and east, not even affecting the Northeast or even the Mid Atlantic states. However the GFS has an interesting 20th storm set up with the cold air far enough south and east that the low even if it tracks just to our southeast we still get snow to the coast.
37. Zachary Labe 11:38 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
Do you think we should disgard the 14th storm and watch the 20th storm?
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38. eaglesrock 11:43 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
Given the NW trend on the models this winter, I would say this storm has a pretty good chance of hitting us. The 20th storm has a chance, too. The 12z and 18z GFS ensembles and OP runs show it.

And Blizzard, I think it's too early to make a snowfall map.
39. dean2007 11:45 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
Not disregard it, just keep an eye on it, but the 20th storm looks better just because the truly cold air mass will come down from the Arctic and the warm air will be around still, so the trough looks to dig a negative tilt so an East Coast storm on the 20th looks like more of a possibility, but we could be looking at an inland runner for the East Coast on the 14th.
40. dean2007 11:45 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
I agree eaglesrock.
41. Zachary Labe 11:47 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
This is a snow outlook map, based on my current thoughts. There are no specific snow totals.
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42. Zachary Labe 11:50 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
I think these storms on the maps are going to make alot of changes everyday.
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43. dean2007 11:50 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
I think so as well.
44. Zachary Labe 11:55 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
Here is one worry though for the 20th storm...
Is it possible the the eastern trough will push the storm too far east?
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45. dean2007 11:56 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
Maybe, but I don't think so for some reason in my gut, this is the one to watch.
46. eaglesrock 11:58 PM GMT on January 07, 2008    
I don't think so. Whatever path storm comes towards us (in this GFS run a CONUS runner) we have a great chance at seeing snow given the cold air that will be in place.

On a side note, here's the 18z DGEX for Monday morning:

47. Snowlover2010 12:00 AM GMT on January 08, 2008    
I remember a few other storms like this in December, where a week ahead of time it looked like a snowstorm but turned into rain.
Is there anything that might foreshadow these storms not turning to rain and when will the models start agreeing?
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48. Zachary Labe 12:00 AM GMT on January 08, 2008    
eaglesrock- Well thats interesting for the DGEX. Thankyou for showing me.
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49. dean2007 12:04 AM GMT on January 08, 2008    
Any link eaglesrock to the DGEX model?
50. eaglesrock 12:06 AM GMT on January 08, 2008    
I have 2:

Link
Link
51. Zachary Labe 12:07 AM GMT on January 08, 2008    
Snowlover2010- I remember those storms in December, it was very frustrating. For some reason this storm is telling me either it will snow or we get no snow at all. And I do not know when the models will agree agian.
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About Blizzard92
Cornell University- Atmospheric Sciences Student; Central PA SKYWARN Storm Spotter; American Meteorological Society Member; PA CoCoRaHS Branch Member

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